- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.smeargle.fans
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.smeargle.fans
TLDR: StartAllBack, ExplorerPatcher and some other projects are being blocked on 24H2.
One more reason to switch to Linux
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The Microsoft devs have time to do shit like this, but haven’t yet gotten the Settings screen as functional as Control Panel was two decades ago…
Do NOT blame the devs for this. They are not the ones to decide the direction of the product or the priority of the tickets they work. Blame upper management for making these poor decisions and the product managers for being spineless and not pushing back.
Maybe they are pushing back, which is why Control Panel still exists?
Meanwhile the new settings panel is telling me my network is private while control panel and network share settings tell me it’s domain authenticated.
…while you’re sitting in an internet café
It would be funny if true.
Sadly the reality is me calling with a client because this one single PC refuses to apply the damn GPOs… :(
But Steve Ballmer told me “Developers Developers Developers Developers”
Are you saying that was a lie?
He also squealed IIRC
Does anyone else wonder which medication Steve Ballmer was prescribed but didn’t take? He always struck me as a walking check engine light.
Relevant XKCD:
Oh was he an alcoholic? See I got more cocaine vibes out of the man.
I’m pretty sure everybody knows it’s not just a couple of developers by themselves churning out windows. Even the project managers are just following orders. Marketing sets the tone upper management picks the path.
Yeah . . . marketing – the department famous for being able to steer the flagship product of a trillion-dollar company.
He said marketing sets the tone (not the path), and that is absolutely true. Many products are killed or poorly received due to the tone poor marketing set.
Unfortunately, blaming the devs seems to be a recurring problem. I remember seeing this in a YouTube comment thread (paraphrased):
why can’t i insert a bible reference without it becoming blue? i write proverbs 14:23 and youtube turns it into a damn timestamp. f-cking lazy developers, they removed dislikes, now keep preventing adblock and cannot detect a simple quote??
I replied with something like:
Hey, stop blaming the devs. It was not their decision to make the unpopular changes, and making a system for detecting if a comment is referring to a book with chapter:verse syntax (not just the bible, and all their versions & translations) is not something they would pay for. For the record, you can refer to Proverbs 14:23 or any other verse without making it a link. I can show you how but first repent and apologize for undervaluing people’s hard work.
(Yes, there’s just a ZWSP after the colon. It can be mapped to a key combo if one uses it often.) He did not answer but maybe didn’t see my reply buried way underneath – it was YouTube comments, after all. Legend says that bible references in his video description keep messing up his worship chapters.
You overestimate the agency of a developer.
The fact that windows is now becoming Apple 2.0 is kinda crazy ngl lol, thought shouldn’t be surprising cuz every tech company is now doing enshittification at this point.
One tech company said “Hey, I can see the bottom!” and every other tech company replied “Race you there!”
And yet they’re not even becoming apple in the areas where apple does well - UX consistency, battery optimisations, a reasonably well-curated app store, etc
who the hell needs an app store on PC?
Linux does a centralized, curated software repository with support for updates and it’s loved.
Windows does a centralized, curated software repository with support for updates and people question why it’s needed.
That’s because the windows one came a decade+ too late, has a bunch of restrictions (particularly at launch when you couldn’t even put desktop apps in it), and generally doesn’t fit with the ecosystem. One of the reason Linux package managers are loved is it is a one-stop-shop for all app and OS updates. The Microsoft Store doesn’t do that, nor can you add third party repositories to it (like you can in Linux) in order to attempt to make it a one-stop-shop.
A big hint here is it’s called the Microsoft Store. It doesn’t perform the same function or achieve the same goals as a Linux package manager. And that is on purpose.
At least they made a good choice with
winget.
They’re not becoming Apple 2.0, Apple is becoming Microsoft 2.0. If you look into the history of Microsoft and Windows, you’ll see that they’ve always been this way, but have received more pushback in the past. Microsoft is the OG tech giant empire.
Turns out they don’t like people disabling their adware.
I don’t get people reacting to Windows critique with that “there are scripts and tools to disable anything”, some even have the gall to compare it to how I use Linux.
When we are talking about adware and spyware right from the vendor, who has the figurative “make shit really mandatory” button. Who is all-powerful there.
A Microsoft representative (?) opened an issue for Explorer Patcher:
Hi Team,
This is to let you know that Win10 taskbar code is removed. And if use continue to use ExplorePatcheron Windows GE Build, they will see a crash. You only need to adjust the setup exe name to get around the block in your new version. We will continue to block ANY version that crashes Explorer.
Please let me know if you have any question.
Thanks Michelle
Makes sense to me.
Shame somebody removed that code. At least RetroBar will still work. Hopefully.
If only there was a way to know who removed the code
it is a mystery 👻
Good news hidden in the article:
Like in the case of StartAllBack, you can bypass the block by simply renaming the executable to something else. If you want to upgrade to a newer build, delete the app, update your system, and then launch it using a renamed executable.
@OP: People who are modifying Windows this deeply are not going to switch to Linux. If you’re going through this much trouble, you’ve already tried Linux several times and left disillusioned every time. Linux does not compete with Windows as a desktop operating system and I doubt it ever will. It simply does not offer the compatibility and ease of use (including for power users) that Windows - for all its faults - has.
People who are modifying Windows this deeply are not going to switch to Linux
Yeah. Not just to avoid a quick file rename.
Although, I started out as someone who modified Windows that deeply, and I ended up on Linux.
One of my reasons for switching was when my favorite Windows mod stopped working, and there was no recourse.
This sounds like it goes beyond that and the Windows team is actively pushing modders out?
I think this will have an effect, and we will get more migrations.
I switched when a Windows update for the third time in a month forcibly changed the default pdf and html file association to edge.
That was like 5 years ago, and I’ve never looked back.
Anyone could just as easily say:
Windows does not compete with macOS as a desktop operating system and I doubt it ever will. It simply does not offer the compatibility and ease of use (including for power users) that macOS - for all its faults - has.
Windows isn’t compatible with Final Cut Pro, has a lackluster implementation of Adobe Photoshop comparatively, and has no support for common cli shells such as bash or zsh (without creating an emulated subsystem ala Cygwin or WSL). Setting up a Windows desktop for my day-to-day tasks is a huge pain as opposed to macOS or a Linux-based desktop OS.
You are right about some points, though what the original comment meant by compatibility is probably industry software.
Power users are the exact people who would get the most benefit out of Linux, though. Speaking as one of them who got sick and tired of Windows’ bullshit. I’d argue Linux already very much competes with Windows, and has many advantages sourced from it being an open and not profit driven operating system.
Finally do I have an operating system that actually tries to work with me to get what I want, rather than tries to obstruct me every part of the way because “it knows best” or whatever windows tries to do.
People who are modifying Windows this deeply are not going to switch to Linux. If you’re going through this much trouble, you’ve already tried Linux several times and left disillusioned every time. Linux does not compete with Windows as a desktop operating system and I doubt it ever will. It simply does not offer the compatibility and ease of use (including for power users) that Windows - for all its faults - has.
Well that’s a take
I mean, go off about it not competing, that’s some BS. But Linux doesn’t offer the compatibility and ease of use that Windows has on a day to day basis. There’s not really any argument to be made there.
Frustrating antipatterns, poor design decisions, poorly communicated reasons for functionality loss with updates (what this article is about), and settings requiring hoop jumping to touch aren’t unique to Windows and magically never present with Linux.
Linux is amazing, neccessary, and I sincerely hope it continues to grow as a valid competitor eventually taking over, but it’s still really rough in a lot of areas as a power user.
There are a handful of very user friendly distros for people who just need to do basic stuff on their computer and have it just work. Web browsing, document editing, even playing games that are just semi-popular (instead of only the most popular) all tend to work to a reasonable degree of “it just works” now.
There’s also an amazing amount of customizability and power placed in the hands of the user if they’re willing to dig into the guts of it. Run your own customized kernel with the specific patches you want, re-code part of a driver to meet your needs. Build an entire distro from source code up, piece by piece, exactly to your wishes. Compatability layers between different desktop environments. Mess with your drivers. It’s all open to mess with.
But what often gets left behind are people in the middle. I need a lot more than just basic functionality, and I have no fear about compiling stuff from code or making pull requests. I have the skills to make Linux work. What I don’t have is the time in my life to be digging in the guts regularly to get shit working on my computer, which is still far too often a requirement with Linux. Just look at discussions in the Linux communities here to see how absurd it can be to get a RDP or VNC client working, depending on your particular setup and graphics card.
It’s like the difference between getting a Honda Civic and working on a project car. You might need to change a tire, brake pads, change the oil on the Civic. You don’t need to mess with engine valve timings.
I really enjoy tinkering with Linux when I have the time, but most of my life I need my shit to just reliably work so I can get my shit done. I prefer my computer to be a tool far more than a project, and Linux is still too much of a project for a lot of people.
Linux does not compete with Windows as a desktop operating system and I doubt it ever will.
Surely it doesn’t, the former is a good system, the latter is monopolistic shit supported by people with duckling syndrome and those who know no better.
EDIT:
does not offer the compatibility and ease of use (including for power users) that Windows - for all its faults - has.
I hope you don’t mean those google-fu masters by “power users”, but otherwise this wouldn’t make any sense.
Aaand another reason to stay with 10.
Amazing how Windows die-hards will go to literally any lengths not to switch to Linux.
Wow, now I’m really glad I switched to Linux. Windows? Never again.
They’re not exactly “being blocked” but rather the legacy ability to tell explorer.exe to load the older style Taskbar, which those apps load then modify, is going away. I’m not defending this nor do I like it, but it would be like saying some Linux distro is BLOCKING customization because some legacy app dependent on Xorg will not work after they switch to Wayland.
They’re not exactly “being blocked”
Simply renaming the executable works to re-enable Start All Back. They are being intentionally blocked by Microsoft.
Like in the case of StartAllBack, you can bypass the block by simply renaming the executable to something else. If you want to upgrade to a newer build, delete the app, update your system, and then launch it using a renamed executable.
Not if you’re using the preview build, where the entire functionality is removed. The warning is just a preemptive preparation for beta users. The bottom of the article indirectly mentions this.
But sure, downvote me.
Well at least finally after three long years Microsoft added the option to combine icons on the taskbar.
Without that option, explorerpatcher was a forced install on w11
Now it’s possible to live without it
TL;DR: One more reason to switch to Linux
“WINDOWS DID A BAD. EVERYONE JUMP SHIP, PRETTY PLEASE? No, we didn’t put into consideration any of the many reasons why one would use Windows over Linux. Linux good, Windows bad, black-and-white!”
Completely irrelevant. Eff off with the Linux proselytizing, mate.
Nah fuck that, call Microsoft out. Fix the fucking Control Panel/Settings nonsense. Stop fucking doing things just because I didn’t say not to. Stop adding all Microsoft apps to startup by default. There’s plenty of reasons to egg corporations and this bullshit is very light-handed. They have the resources and power to make great things, they chose to chase this dragon and leave their OS a fucken mess. They deserve it. Especially with all these Linux distros that are free popping up left and right. At one point we have to fight back against these huge ecosystems that become complacent, fall into dark patterns, and that point was yesterday.
I didn’t say I wasn’t calling Microsoft out. I just said I didn’t want to be proselytized with Linux, that Windows is still a more viable OS. It’s not zero sum— Microsoft can be shitty while still being more viable than Linux.
I mean it’s the only viable alternative. And it’s unquestionably that Microsoft has been making Windows worse recently.
That said. I’m not convinced Microsoft is doing this to hurt users. I think it’s probably the correct assumption that they have seen a high number of crashes with 24H2 and these software packages.
It’s literally less viable than Windows. That’s an effing fact. Yeah, I’m an idealist too and I want a good FOSS operating system for everyone. But Linux isn’t a good FOSS operating system for everyone. It’s a slapped-together kernel with slapped-together software for tinkering nerds who hopefully can get the necessities and everything they care about actually working. And for people who want more-specific software, well, eff them, right?
And forget about normal people. Y’all say you want every year to be the year of Linux on desktop, with the implication of it going mainstream. But you also don’t want it to become mainstream, because “if you’re not a tinkering nerd, eff you, and we’re not going to do anything about it. Linux isn’t for everyone, except we also want everyone on it”. Most Linux fans are dumb cult members who do not want to consider these things.
If you want to solve the Linux problems, first thing you need is to go against the common Linux mentality. Get a big, well-organized group like Mozilla to produce an accessibility-ready, normie-ready, mainstream, FOSS version of Linux. And then they pay the devs to do things they don’t want to do, such as focusing on specific issues instead of doing whatever they feel like at the time, and on QA-testing. Hardware compatibility and hardware efficiency first.
Most people who use Windows could switch to Linux easily (the light users, those that surf social media and stream content)
People who game may have a harder time depending on the games they play (too many anti cheat games refuse to work on Linux)
People who are locked into specific software suites would likely have the hardest time (people who use Windows exclusive software for work, etc)
For me I’m a bit the first group (most of my PC usage) and the third group (Fusion 360 and Adobe Software (though I’m down to only Lightroom at this point)), but I’m also a power user for my systems in general. I’ve currently got 3 systems, 2 Linux machines and a Windows machine. I’m hoping that soon (before end of summer) I’ll be able to get that to 3 Linux machines and a Windows VM (just for Fusion 360 and Lightroom).
Honestly only in the last year have I even been able to do the switch as much as I have as Linux in general has become a lot more newbie friendly. And my main driving factor was Windows 11’s TPM requirement. All my systems technically have one, but it’s disabled on all my systems.
The only issue I’ve had with the flavor of Linux I’m using (Mint) is that changing the lock screen orientation and wallpaper was (IMO) harder than it needed to be. Especially considering that the steps it took to do it were both hard to find and easy to execute.
Get a big, well-organized group like Mozilla to produce an accessibility-ready, normie-ready, mainstream, FOSS version of Linux.
Linux Mint works out of the box and has every tool a normie would want installed and functional by default. The product you are asking for exists.
