They gonna get waymo fares
Hi dad!
Welcome to johnnycab!
So it begins…
Can someone explain like I’m five how Waymo has robitaxis without drivers behind the wheel and automated driving such as that offered by Tesla is not yet able to do the same?
Is it just that Waymo has mapped a small area really, really well? What’s the difference? Why is Tesla so bad at it but Waymo is able to do it?
Waymo doesn’t give a shit if their cars are ugly and can cover them in dozens upon dozens of cameras and sensors. They’re not selling them to consumers who care about looks, they are renting them to riders who don’t want to die on the short trip. They also only operate in a small region of the country with limited weather conditions and frequently stop service when weather is bad.
Tesla is run by an idiot who insists that a pair of cameras and a single lidar sensor that they keep deciding to disable can somehow magically always work in all weather and lighting conditions and is selling to consumers who don’t want an ugly car and expect to be able to operate their purchase at all times
Different constraints leads to different levels of success
Teslas have never had LiDAR on them. You don’t seem very educated on the subject you speak with such confidence of.
Even Tesla themselves calls the removed sensors “radar” so I don’t think your rude dismissal of GPs post is appropriate.
In 2021, we began our transition to Tesla Vision by removing radar from Model 3 and Model
Radar and LiDAR are two different instruments. One creates a 3D point cloud while the other mainly measures distance and speed. New Tesla models with hardware 4 have radars in them.
This correct. Waymo cars have both radar and Lidar plus like 29 cameras.
It’s a recent development. First the LiDAR manufacturer leaked that they sold them to Tesla. Then several teslas had been spotted with LiDAR rigged on to their roofs. Then in a lawsuit an engineer admitted they’re training fsd with LiDAR
https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/7/24151497/tesla-lidar-luminar-elon-musk-sensor-autonomous
I think you were refering to the fact that Teslas used to have radars, not LiDARs on them, then they got disabled and removed and now they’re including them on the HW4 model Y and X again. Musk himself has not been insisting anything about “pair of cameras and a single LiDAR sensor” he’s always been all about cameras only.
Why they’re buying those sensors now? Who knows. Very unlikely however that they’d be adding them to their current models. It more likely has something to do with training FSD and validating the camera data with LiDAR or then it’s related to the Robotaxi. Time will tell.
Going off what fishpen0 said, Waymo actually has sensors on it to detect things and can “understand” its surroundings much better than Tesla cars can wish just cameras.
I’ve ridden in Waymos and they are smooth riding. After the initial “OMG! There’s no driver!” You kind of forget about it. You get to your (limited area) destination safely and without much hassle.
I can go more in depth if ya want.
The problem with Teslas, or self-driving cars in general is not so much the ability to see your surroundings. Teslas can do this well enough by using just cameras while admittedly LiDAR would be even more accurate. The problem is deciding what to do with this information. It’s primarily a software problem, not a hardware one.
I’ve ridden in Waymos and they are smooth riding.
In a recent statement on X, Tesla Autopilot Director Ashok Elluswamy highlighted the team’s focus on both smoothness and safety during the development of FSD v12.5, noting that he managed to avoid spilling open coffee for a huge portion of a recent trip.
Many people testing FSD on youtube can confirm that it indeed is that smooth riding.
I’m not sure what you mean by suggesting Tesla is bad at it. Have you looked at any recent videos of Tesla FSD driving in cities? It’s not flawless and neither is Waymo but claiming it’s bad is far from the truth. Most people seem to be basing their opinion about FSD on outdated information. It has come a long way. It will reliably take you from your home to the grocery store and back with zero driver interventions. Nowdays it’s almost boring to watch videos about FSD because it is so good.
Tesla FSD has killed multiple people.
And it will keep killing people even after it surpasses the most skilled human driver. What’s your point?
If we replaced every single car in the US with a self driving vehicle that was 10x safer driver than an average human is, there would still be 11 deaths every single day. Does that mean it’s unsafe we should go back to human drivers and 110 daily deaths?
Humans can drive with just vision.
Tesla is doing it the hard way. Their model involves cars just having vision and driving the same as humans do. Humans can do it, why can’t computers? Seeing as they have more cameras than 2. In theory they should be better than human drivers. Once it is solved they could instantly drive anywhere humans can.
Waymo has taken an easier route and they have used a lot of detailed mapping with also an assortment of additional sensors. Waymo doing it the easy way has only recently achieved this. Turns out it’s really hard. Harder than everyone including the experts expected probably.
But with advances in computing and things like LLM’s Tesla is catching up. Who knows how long that will take though? I always thought waymo was doing the right thing so I’m biased.
Edit: this fucking website I swear. I answered the question and got downvoted for it. What more you people want from me?
Human vision also have the brain that does a lot of automation like figuring out distance and looking out for danger with real time reaction speed. Night vision is usually better for most people too. The brain also combines that with sound so it can detect things out of vision. Eyes already have a range of view but the human head can also move around accurately. On top of all this focus is what the human brain is best at. While cameras can see 360°, years of data built in the subconscious taught a human driver what to look out for.
A human is not just a computer with a camera.
Yea I know.
You apparently haven’t seen the video of a fsd tesla going full speed through the fog towards a train crossing with an active train.
The cars display didn’t even indicate that it thought something was in front of it, and would have happily driven right into the side of this train if the driver hadn’t taken over at the last moment. (Driver was an idiot for using fsd in the fog to begin with) but it shows the cameras can’t handle reduced visibility well currently, they saw the fog and just decided it was open road or clear sky.
That’s more than I would have expected at this stage. Huh.
Good. Every less impatient, wreckless, human, driver on the road, the better.
Be careful with that logic, these are jobs forever lost to robots. They will eventually come for your job or the job of someone you know. Increasingly the question won’t be whether robots can do X better than humans, but whether they should.
Reason number one million capitalism sucks. We should be happy to turn over dangerous or menial jobs to machines but we can’t do that because without jobs our society views us as worthless.
That’s literally the goal.
I used to do electrical engineering at an architecture firm, and we would say, design a hospital that has 300 identical exam rooms in it.
Guess what happens when someone decides that we need one more outlet in one of those rooms? Or that they need to be on the other wall? Or that a new piece of furniture gets added?
Do you think that all 300 rooms would just update with that new requirement? No. It is someone’s job to sit there, click on the outlet on the pallette in the left side of their screen, drag it into the room, rotate it properly, attach it to the right wall, give it a circuit from the panel, and then repeat for 300 rooms. It can take weeks.
I learned how to write software because I realized what a fucking crock of shit waste of time that is. Why are you celebrating and defending menial bullshit that can be automated? A utopian future is literally only possible if we automate away most jobs. I don’t think our current system of resource distribution is setup for a utopian future, but it can literally only happen if all the pieces are in place for it, and automating the basic necessities (like building design, and transportation) is one of those necessary pieces. If AI automates software development, that will be awesome because then way more industries (like architecture) will be able to get the software they need to run effectively.
Well it is one thing to automate a repetitive task in your job, and quite another to eliminate entire professions. The latter has serious ramifications and shouldn’t be taken lightly. What you call “menial bullshit” is the entire livelihood and profession of quite a few people, speaking of taxis for one. And the means to make some extra cash for others. Also, a stepping stone for immigrants who may not have the skills or means to get better jobs but are thus able to make a living legally. And sometimes the refuge of white collar workers down on their luck. What are all these people going to do when taxi driving is relegated to robots? Will there be (less menial) alternatives? Will these offer a livable wage? Or will such people end up long-term unemployed? Will the state have enough cash to support them and help them upskill or whatever is needed to survive and prosper?
A technological utopia is a promise from the 1950s. Hasn’t been realized yet. Isn’t on the horizon anytime soon. Careful that in dreaming up utopias we don’t build dystopias.
I’ve used them a few times now and the novelty hasn’t worn off yet.
When it does wear off I think I’ll move back to alternatives that cost less, unless Waymo gets competitive on price.
Interesting, when I took Waymo, it was cheaper than Uber and Lyft, pre tip.
How much more does it cost to the alternatives?
Uber is quoting me about $15 for a journey that Waymo charged me $19 for.
There’s a tip to add for the Uber ride. I’m not sure what the cost for Uber would have been when I took the Waymo.
100,000 rides a week. Impressive.
