This isn’t a win for the Israelis who wanted a ceasefire or the hostages released. There will need to be a new leader to take over before negotiations can resume and chances are good they’ll be even more radicalized against Israel.
And as their assassinations keep pushing the leadership lower and lower down the organizational structure there’s less likelihood whoever is around by the time they negotiate will have the influence to actually command people to cease fighting.
At this rate perhaps Hamas will soon no longer be viable and Gazans will have the option to choose non-genocidal leadership instead.
How would they be able to influence Israeli leadership? Those are the people committing genocide currently.
The Atlantic: Understanding Hamas’s Genocidal Ideology
While one can debate whether Israel is genocidal, (and I don’t believe they are,) Hamas has been unequivocally calling for genocide since their creation and has taken actions to that end.
Israel is committing genocide and an ethnic cleansing. Claiming otherwise is incredibly callous and cruel.
Genocide
Holocaust scholar to discuss his conclusion that Gaza campaign constitutes genocide
UN Expert Says Impunity for Israel Must End as ‘Genocidal Violence’ Spreads to West Bank
“A Textbook Case of Genocide”: Israeli Holocaust Scholar Raz Segal Decries Israel’s Assault on Gaza
800+ Legal Scholars Say Israel May Be Perpetrating ‘Crime of Genocide’ in Gaza
Human Shields
Hamas:
Intentionally utilizing the presence of civilians or other protected persons to render certain areas immune from military attack is prohibited under international law. Amnesty International was not able to establish whether or not the fighters’ presence in the camps was intended to shield themselves from military attacks. However, under international humanitarian law, even if one party uses “human shields”, or is otherwise unlawfully endangering civilians, this does not absolve the opposing party from complying with its obligations to distinguish between military objectives and civilians or civilian objects, to refrain from carrying out indiscriminate or disproportionate attacks, and to take all feasible precautions to spare civilians and civilian objects.
Israel:
Additionally, there is extensive independent verification of Israel using Palestinians as Human Shields:
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Including Children (2013 Report)
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Israel “Systematically” Uses Gaza Children as Human Shields, Rights Group Finds 2024
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Breaking The Silence - Testimonies from IDF Veterans
Deliberate Attacks on Civilians
Israel deliberately targets civilian areas. From in general with the Dahiya Doctrine to multiple systems deployed in Gaza to do so:
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The Dahiya Doctrine & Israel’s Use of Disproportionate Force
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‘A mass assassination factory’: Inside Israel’s calculated bombing of Gaza
Israel also targets Israeli Soldiers and Civilians to prevent them being leveraged as hostages, known as the Hannibal Directive. Which was also used on Oct 7th.
Starvation
Prior to the current hostilities, 1.2 million of Gaza’s 2.2 million people were estimated to be facing acute food insecurity, and over 80 percent were reliant on humanitarian aid. Israel maintains overarching control over Gaza, including over the movement of people and goods, territorial waters, airspace, the infrastructure upon which Gaza relies, as well as the registry of the population. This leaves Gaza’s population, which Israel has subjected to an unlawful closure for 16 years, almost entirely dependent on Israel for access to fuel, electricity, medicine, food, and other essential commodities.
After the imposition of a “total blockade” on Gaza on October 9, Israeli authorities resumed piping water to some parts of southern Gaza on October 15 and, as of October 21, allowed limited humanitarian aid to arrive through the Rafah crossing with Egypt. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said on October 18 that Israel would not allow humanitarian assistance “in the form of food and medicines” into Gaza through its crossings “as long as our hostages are not returned.”
That’s quite a citation spam. You had that all prepared? Hm, curious.
I don’t really want to debate every aspect of this conflict with you, so I’ll stick to the matter I was discussing, whether Israel is committing genocide or not:
- Israel could destroy Gaza in a day if they didn’t care about civilians. They haven’t. In fact they often do things to reduce civilian casualties that no other nation does, even at the expense of their operational effectiveness. (Roof knocking, warning people to evacuate in advance.) I find that inexplicable if they intended to commit genocide and maximize civilian deaths.
- Self-defense is not genocide. Collateral damage is not genocide. Genocide, the crime, is a very specific claim of intent to destroy in whole or in part a protected group. Hamas, what Israel has been clear they intend to destroy, is not a protected group under this law. I do not believe evidence has been sufficiently established to make a credible accusation that Israel is attempting to destroy Arabs, Palestinians, or Muslims in whole or in part, (which are the relevant protected groups in this accusation,) especially considering 21% of Israeli citizens are Arab/Muslim, (i.e., the same heritage as Palestinians,) with full rights.
- There have been some terrible and indefensible statements made by judeofascist members of the Israeli government that might qualify as genocidal, (Ben-Gvir, Eliyahu,) but not by people actually waging this war, and not sufficient to establish genocidal intent by the IDF at large. A while back I actually dug into the quotes SA provided in their IJC case from the ones waging this war, many of which are included in your “law4palestine” citation, (mostly by Gallant and Netanyahu.) When I read them in their original context it was clear they were stripped of important context and/or interpreted in the least charitable way possible to make their case. For example, acknowledging that war takes a toll on civilians and suggesting they should want to avoid conflict is not the same as stating intent to commit genocide via targeting civilians, nor is spouting rhetoric about how their side are the good guys, even though many such statements appear on that list.
- Your links about statements from XX scholars remind me of the tactics climate change deniers use; cite a handful of experts to appeal to authority even when they may hold a minority opinion. The fact of the matter is the IJC did not find that SA’s claims of genocide were plausible, and did not order Israel to stop the war, which is what they would have done if this were a clear case of genocide. Actual judges in positions of authority applying the law is far more compelling to me than a petition by, “legal scholars,” or one individual’s opinion.
Removed and temp banned for repeated genocide denial and misinformation.
To be 100% clear here, the precise definition of a genocide has five criteria, it only takes ONE to be declared a genocide.
Israel’s actions in Gaza meet ALL FIVE requirements.
https://iccforum.com/genocide-convention
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
© Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
“Proud of his defiant last stand”
Thats simply disgusting. There’s nothing prideful about this monster of a human being. The only perception of him should be distain and erasure.
Imagine being bullied and humiliated every single day of your life… then somebody gives that bully a black eye. That person would be your hero.
Not if that person is a terrorist with no qualms of raping, torturing and murdering people. Who also btw bullied the shit out of you before.
Who are these people that think Hamas was not abusing and murdering Palestinians before war? Are you 12 or something and missed that whole history?
Did you miss the whole story? Israel has always been the obstacle for peace.
De-development via the Gaza Occupation
The Israeli imposed closure on Gaza began in 1991, temporarily, becoming permanent in 1993. The barrier began around Gaza around 1972.
Between July 1971 and February 1972, Sharon enjoyed considerable success. During this time, the entire Strip (apart from the Rafah area) was sealed off by a ring of security fences 53 miles in length, with few entrypoints. Today, their effects live on: there are only three points of entry to Gaza—Erez, Nahal Oz, and Rafah.
Perhaps the most dramatic and painful aspect of Sharon’s campaign was the widening of roads in the refugee camps to facilitate military access. Israel built nearly 200 miles of security roads and destroyed thousands of refugee dwellings as part of the widening process.’ In August 1971, for example, the Israeli army destroyed 7,729 rooms (approximately 2,000 houses) in three vola- tile camps, displacing 15,855 refugees: 7,217 from Jabalya, 4,836 from Shati, and 3,802 from Rafah.
- Page 105
Through 1993 Israel imposed a one-way system of tariffs and duties on the importation of goods through its borders; leaving Israel for Gaza, however, no tariffs or other regulations applied. Thus, for Israeli exports to Gaza, the Strip was treated as part of Israel; but for Gazan exports to Israel, the Strip was treated as a foreign entity subject to various “non-tariff barriers.” This placed Israel at a distinct advantage for trading and limited Gaza’s access to Israeli and foreign markets. Gazans had no recourse against such policies, being totally unable to protect themselves with tariffs or exchange rate controls. Thus, they had to pay more for highly protected Israeli products than they would if they had some control over their own economy. Such policies deprived the occupied territories of significant customs revenue, estimated at $118-$176 million in 1986. (Arguably, the economic terms of the Gaza—Jericho Agreement modify the situation only slightly.')
- page 240
In a report released in May 2015, the World Bank revealed that as a result of Israel’s blockade and OPE, Gaza’s manufacturing sector shrank by as much as 60 percent over eight years while real per capita income is 31 percent lower than it was 20 years ago. The report also stated that the blockade alone is responsible for a 50 percent decrease in Gaza’s GDP since 2007. Furthermore, OPE (com- bined with the tunnel closure) exacerbated an already grave situation by reducing Gaza’s economy by an additional $460 million.
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Page 402
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The Gaza Strip: The Political Economy of De-Development - Third Edition by Sara M. Roy
Blockade, including Aid
Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.
After the ‘disengagement’ in 2007, this turned into a full blockade; where Israel has had control over the airspace, borders, and sea. Under the guise of ‘dual-use’ Israel has restricted food, allocating a minimum supply leading to over half of Gaza being food insecure; construction materials, medical supplies, and other basic necessities have also been restricted.
The blockade and Israel’s repeated military offensives have had a heavy toll on Gaza’s essential infrastructure and further debilitated its health system and economy, leaving the area in a state of perpetual humanitarian crisis. Indeed, Israel’s collective punishment of Gaza’s civilian population, the majority of whom are children, has created conditions inimical to human life due to shortages of housing, potable water and electricity, and lack of access to essential medicines and medical care, food, educational equipment and building materials.
- Amnesty International Report pg 26-27
Settlements, Occupation, and Apartheid
Israel justifies the settlements and military bases in the West Bank in the name of Security. However, the reality of the settlements on-the-ground has been the cause of violent resistance and a significant obstacle to peace, as it has been for decades.
This type of settlement, where the native population gets ‘Transferred’ to make room for the settlers, is a long standing practice.
- The Transfer Committee, and the JNF Ethnic Cleansing, which led to Forced Displacement of 100,000 Palestinians throughout the mandate before the Nakba
The mass ethnic cleansing campaign of 1948:
Further, declassified Israeli documents show that the Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip were deliberately planned before being executed in 1967:
While the peace process was exploited to continue de-facto annexation of the West Bank via Settlements
The settlements are maintained through a violent apartheid that routinely employs violence towards Palestinians and denies human rights like water access, civil rights, etc. This kind of control gives rise to violent resistance to the Apartheid occupation, jeopardizing the safety of Israeli civilians.
The apartheid regime is based on organized, systemic violence against Palestinians, which is carried out by numerous agents: the government, the military, the Civil Administration, the Supreme Court, the Israel Police, the Israel Security Agency, the Israel Prison Service, the Israel Nature and Parks Authority, and others. Settlers are another item on this list, and the state incorporates their violence into its own official acts of violence. Settler violence sometimes precedes instances of official violence by Israeli authorities, and at other times is incorporated into them. Like state violence, settler violence is organized, institutionalized, well-equipped and implemented in order to achieve a defined strategic goal.
Visualizing the Ethnic Cleansing
Peace Process and Solution
Both Hamas and Fatah have agreed to a Two-State solution based on the 1967 borders for decades. Oslo and Camp David were used by Israel to continue settlements in the West Bank and maintain an Apartheid, while preventing any actual Two-State solution
How Avi Shlaim moved from two-state solution to one-state solution
‘One state is a game changer’: A conversation with Ilan Pappe
One State Solution, Foreign Affairs
Hamas proposed a full prisoner swap as early as Oct 8th, and agreed to the US proposed UN Permanent Ceasefire Resolution. Additionally, Hamas has already agreed to no longer govern the Gaza Strip, as long as Palestinians receive liberation and a unified government can take place.
During the current war, Hamas officials have said that the group does not want to return to ruling Gaza and that it advocates for forming a government of technocrats to be agreed upon by the various Palestinian factions. That government would then prepare for elections in Gaza and the West Bank, with the intention of forming a unified government.
Does not justify the existence of Hamas tho
Justify? Probably not. Explain? Most definitely. The state of Israel is the only thing that benefits from Hamas.
I think there’s more to it than Israel being oppresors. There’s plenty of internal oppression like Islam being the most oppressive religion on the planet to start.
Here’s the thing: the Zionist movement (as opposed to Jews, generally) has the stated aim of “removing” the current population of Palestine and refilling it with people of a different ethnoculture. The only thing that all Palestinians can currently agree on is that the Zionist policy of Lebensraum (yeah - I said it) must be stopped. Some people only have the clothes on their back and the rubble under their feet. At that point you’ll join with anybody to remove the genocidal apartheid yoke of the oppressor. The inevitable infighting can wait until the external aggressor is defeated. A complete human tragedy for millions is the result. Both sets of lunatic religious extremists making misery for the people in the middle.
The existence of Hamas, and any armed resistance movement, is directly due to the decades of violence experienced daily under the permanent occupation, the Apartheid State, of Israel. It’s impossible to understand their existence if you don’t understand the lived experience and material conditions they are forced to live under. Can you condemn the violence of the Warsaw Ghetto Uprising in the same way as the violence of the Warsaw Ghetto?
In the Shadow of the Holocaust by Masha Gessen, the situation in Gaza is compared to the Warsaw Ghettos. The comparison was also made by a Palestinian poet who was later killed by an Israeli airstrike. Adi Callai, an Israeli, has also written on the parallels in his article The Gaza Ghetto Uprising and expanded upon in his corresponding video
You are confusing “understanding” with “justifying”. Try again?
