- cross-posted to:
- games@sh.itjust.works
- games@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- games@sh.itjust.works
- games@lemmy.world
New OLED screen. New APU. And lots of small hardware improvements.
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Hahaha, they kept trying to convince people again and again that there will NOT be a hardware refresh any time soon. That was only a few months ago.
They were careful with how they phrased it, leaving the possibility of a refresh without a performance uplift still on the table (as speculated by media). It looks like the OLED model’s core performance will be only marginally better due to faster RAM, but that the APU itself is the same thing with a process node shrink (which improves efficiency a little).
See also: PCGamer article about an OLED version. They didn’t say “no”, and (just like with the previously linked article), media again speculated about a refresh happening.
It looks like they were consistent with what they were talking about with how it wasn’t simple to just drop in a new screen and leave everything else as-is, and used that opportunity to upgrade basically everything a little bit while they were tinkering with the screen upgrade.
The effiency part becomes a larger feature if it’s a mobile device…
Sure, but not much of that battery improvement is coming from migrating the APU’s process node. Moving from TSMC’s 7nm process to their 6nm process is only an incremental improvement; a “half-node” shrink rather than a full-node shrink like going from their 7nm to their 5nm.
The biggest battery improvement is (almost definitely) from having a 25% larger battery (40Whr -> 50Whr), with the APU and screen changes providing individually-smaller battery life improvements than that. Hence the APU change improving efficiency “a little”.
Well yeah, otherwise it will end up like Atari. No sales for the first one because everyone is waiting for the next one.
It’s smart. Also, developers have a solid benchmark to set their games to. Console has long had the benefit of a stable hardware set over the course of many years, which makes it easier to develop to the broadest possible market. Skipping incremental APU updates has a benefit of keeping a longer benchmark for game developers hoping to boost sales by targeting the market with handhelds. Valve was pretty clear in their communication in this regard, which is great.
I received my deck yesterday 😭
Return it 🤷🏻. I’m sure they have some 30 day return window.
They offered me a return/repurchase at current price, so I took that. Gives me some cash back to spend on games 🤷♂️
Oof. I had mine about 6 weeks but that stings lol
Yeah I was burned and I’m kinda salty about it.
That’s not what happened at all. They said they would not be releasing a higher performance version anytime soon. This is just a refresh. Like a Steam Deck 1.8
Just a few tips for people:
I got a 512 LCD at launch prices. I have zero regrets. It is awesome when I go on travel but also great for just hanging out around the house. And while the price is considerably higher than a switch (less so if you go for the entry level pricing), you save a LOT on games since Nintendo Pricing tends to translate to third parties over there too. But you obviously know you.
Will probably “trade in” my current model some time next year for the 512 OLED. 1 TB is tempting, but I have a desktop too. So installing and uninstalling games are almost all network transfers that go really fast because I generally am also playing those games on my desktop. Or even just keeping them installed there because I have the extra storage.
As for trading in: Be INCREDIBLY wary of using ebay. Ebay has incredibly good buyer protections at the cost of almost zero seller protections. If someone receives it and then says “Didn’t arrive, go fuck yourself” they get their money back and ebay/paypal will basically tell you to take it up with local police… who won’t do shit because ACAB. So stick to local exchanges (and follow all best practices for that) or just keep an eye out for the inevitable amazon or best buy trade in programs. You’ll get less, but also will have almost zero stress.
Not really true. Just cover your ass with paper.
Had a buyer try to get away with cd-laser not working but I explicitly wrote that in the description (and not in a tiny font). So at the end I won.It was about 50€…
That has nothing to do with a buyer claiming they never received the item or even just the correct item. Very hard to prove in eBay’s system.
Depends on the region the seller/buyer is in.
Tracked parcels for a starter. If it gets stolen by the shipment conoany or porch pirates that’s a whole other story.
But did the bought item actually make it in the box?
What I really like is that they double down on hackabilty by switching to metal torx screws, etc.
That, and a Linux system are IMO the main selling points of the SteamDeck, compared to any clones from Asus or Lenovo, etc.
Wait, are their screws not metal?!
They are mostly (all?) metal.
Torx head are preferred for smaller screws because it is a lot easier to strip the heads with a phillips. Mostly because you can use too big or too small of a phillips head with a screw which means you don’t have a good fit and are going to mangle it. Whereas a torx is very much “one size fits one size”.
But also? If you actually pay attention to the video/read the article and are not a complete monster, you will use a ph0 instead of a ph1 or whatever and that stops being an issue. But it makes people happier and maps better to the ridiculously expensive electronics screwdrivers (cough, lmg, cough) that come with a very narrow set of bits rather than assuming people shell out almost the exact same amount of money for an ifixit kit that has dozens of bits. Or, you know, people who realize their local hardware store also sells bits.
The real advantage is that it sounds like Valve are moving away from self tapping screws. Explaining those is well beyond my brain, but it boils down to the idea that they cut/grind/clomp through plastic to hold themselves in place. That is why Valve have made it very clear that disassembling and reassembling your Steam Deck will lower thermal performance and durability. The screws won’t go in as tight as they used to and, if you do it enough, they won’t hold at all. If you ever were reassembling something and the screw just kind of spun freely, that is likely the cause.
Dude awesome info. Thanks for taking the time to type this
Allen key screws are better, it’s a lot easier and cheaper to buy Allen key tools. Torx tools also don’t last that long. I especially hate them on MTB disk brake rotor mounts, they last one change of rotors and you have to buy a new Torx bit.
When you buy “wood screws” that doesn’t mean that the screws are made of wood, it means they go into wood.
Great. Can you fucking release it in Australia now? Fuck Valve and its support here.
Yeah ikr. Feels like they’re still pissed at us for our ACCC taking them to task for not offering refunds here
Meanwhile Gaben said he fell in love with New Zealand while he was stranded there during the pandemic. Shame he couldn’t confuse the two.
Is the steam deck sold in NZ?
Nope
no official Steam Deck available on Brazil too :/
Wouldn’t they need to build it in Brazil, otherwise the tarifs would make it prohibitively expensive?
Norway too please 😢
They’re a bunch of cunts, pretty par for the course when it comes to getting technology here (without having to grayimport it and roll the dice on warranties)
Ok, this has me hyped because it also implies further iterations.
At not wildly inflating costs. I love my deck, so I can’t wait to see the next iteration :).
Steam Deck is 1.5 years old and im excited for a new iteration!
It’s closer to 2 years old.
Definitely, every other piece of Valve hardware has been one and done. I figured valve would cut the Steam Deck since other companies have entered the market.
Well also every other piece of Valve hardware has largely been a dud.
I think the real question here is, what will the exhaust vent smell like? Have they improved on the aroma?
How can you improve perfection?
Is this a thing? I don’t own a steam deck so I can’t tell if you’re kidding…
I own a Steam Deck and I’m not even sure what people are talking about with it, I’ve not really smelled anything coming from mine (which would probably have me more worried than delighted), but apparently it’s a thing amongst some owners.
I’m not the only one!
Please announce a trade in program, Valve. Don’t make me use eBay cause I’m not sure it’s worth the hassle at that point.
For real. I bought recently and I love it but would’ve absolutely waited had they not promised there wouldn’t be a refresh around the corner. Kinda fumed, Valve thought you were my choom.
Thinking about finally getting one. The 512GB OLED does look very good…
I also wonder if they’re ever going to have a non-handheld console (essentially a revamped Steam Machine). I’ve heard a bunch about people building PCs and running Holo ISO on there as a console replacement, might make sense to have an official solution from Valve.
steam deck can already be used as a non-handheld machine.
and if you actually need one, get a pc.Sure, but the form factor of the Steam Deck will always limit performance and carry some extra cost with it. And for a large user base installing another OS on a PC (Holo ISO) is something they are not going to do. Hence, Steam Machine.
They just need to release a thunderbolt capable SteamDeck with a eGPU.
Seriously, at that point why not just build a PC?
What they need to do is release a widely compatible official SteamOS, as they promised they would do. There’s plenty of affordable hardware you could use for that purpose at that point.
The formfactor, You could dock it and have a full power system or use it on the go. For Valve it also reduces overall SKUs and the need to support a wider range of products/controllers. A eGPU enclosure wouldn’t even need new product development. They could probably rebrand an existing unit. It would extend the life of the SD by making it’s graphics card modular and upgradable at least in docked mode.
But yes they should release the OS and PCs are great to. I just think it would be a nice addition to the SD ecosystem.
Asus is trying to do something like that, including compatibility with the Ally, and I frankly don’t think it’s great.
Decent software and less flaky integration would make things better, but honestly I don’t think the value proposition is there. Then again, I also don’t understand people trying to use PC handhelds as desktop PCs, either, so what do I know.
I do see your point but my use case is that I like to play casually in bed, I like that I have the option to bring it on the go, and I like to sit down at my desk and game with the boys or play FPS. I mostly use it in docked mode these days because I’ve been really busy.
My buddies and I want to play the new Baldurs Gate soon. Which doesn’t run too hot on the SteamDeck. Perhaps with an eGPU it could.
I have a gaming PC as well in another room. Which I stream to the SD sometimes. But it’s honestly a bit of a chore compared to using the SD.
As a side note I find the SD software pretty decent. Not sure if that was directed to the Ally.
And for a large user base installing another OS on a PC (Holo ISO) is something they are not going to do. Hence, Steam Machine.
Steam machines were manufactured by third parties with SteamOS pre-loaded. That could very well be a thing in the future but it likely won’t come from Valve. But they have to make an official SteamOS available first.
Some leaks point to possibly a non-handheld console, exactly like a steam machine 2. I think it could work with the right set of features, and a good steam controller 2. But with Valve you never know what internal things will actually become launched products.
I also wonder if they’re ever going to have a non-handheld console
Seems unlikely. You can use the Deck as a (very weak) console, if you really want to. I just don’t think it makes sense for PC gamers, as most of them are choosy about their hardware.
HoloISO, last I checked, was not updated for a loooong time, but we do have ChimeraOS and Bazzite, which are similar projects, and hopefully one day Valve will release a “general use” SteamOS.
Well shit. I didn’t expect to replace my steam deck so soon, but the extra half an inch plus better battery life could convince me. I use it daily for Final Fantasy XI.
Stop it Valve, I can only become so erect
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfoLRmKwnSI
The 90 Hz display is apparently still not VRR
So went from “I NEED THIS” to “I really shouldn’t buy it but probably will upgrade during the first sale”
Better battery life, faster wifi and brighter display is definitely enough for me! Though I will have to be able to sell my original one first
Oh, I am almost definitely buying this some time next year. The battery life is nice for occasional use, but generally I am not doing marathon sessions anymore.
But the big thing that is getting me excited is the improved thermals. When I play something that is poorly optimized or otherwise start pushing it, I very much am reminded that I am using a “gaming laptop” and all the heat rashes that entails.
Also: If the translucent black+orange were at the 512 GB range, I would probably still make a poor decision next week. More storage is always nice, but I have had zero issues with my current 512 GB drive. Spent the past year or so in that “When my sticks fail or something otherwise goes bad, I’ll crack it open. Swap out to hall effects and get the biggest nvme I can fit in there” state
I am telling myself I’ll wait for a discount. But what I totally expect to happen is I realize the cutting board I am planning to treat myself to next year comes out a lot cheaper than I am budgeting for and…
Not to help you make “bad” decisions, but this is an amazing cutting board that punches far past its cost. Its been America’s test kitchen #1 recommended for years, and I can confirm it’s excellent.
Thanks. But by “cutting board” I am more or less saying “go full sicko on my counter space to the point that this might count as a small scope remodel”.
Ahh, that will be doom to your pocketbook, but enjoy.
You’re not driving the display at 90fps, so a 90 fps container for 30-45 fps content is actually not bad at all, and it should feel pretty smooth even with minor fps drops.
People think VRR is magic sometimes, but it doesn’t work well with all types of content. For handheld you’re often going to be driving at low fps a high refresh rate can be more relevant sometimes. VRR on top of everything else would be nice, but it’s definitely not a must.
Oh. I don’t want to really go down that rabbit hole, but I think the 90 hz refresh rate is completely unnecessary considering the use case of the steam deck. Likely just a function of the oled.
And I do think setting a target refresh rate is probably better in the long run. It encourages people to optimize their performance settings and provides a target.
But also? Fluctuations and “running at the limits of your system” are where VRR IS magic. You never have to worry about artifacts that occur from being on the wrong multiple (especially with the math for why 40 Hz is better than 30 AND 45 for a 60 Hz display…). And that is largely where the Deck lives.
I don’t think VRR is essential for the Steam Deck. But I do think it is a “no brainer” that I assume is only not there because of how the (kind of ridiculously) low resolution OLEDs were sourced.
And tinfoil hat mode: It also isn’t something that really benefits from reviews. DF might touch on it, but the vast majority of outlets will intentionally set up benchmarks for a stable frame rate and… the Steam Deck is going to continue to be the baseline for all those comparisons. So showing off how good it looks when it is bouncing between 20 and 50 FPS just isn’t going to be something that shows up in a GN video.
I don’t know what VRR windows you get on handheld displays these days, but at 30fps it shouldn’t be super useful compared to vsynced 90Hz. 90 is 11ms intervals for your next frame, and if you’re pushing the hardware at ~30fps you may have bigger swings between frames in VRR (e.g. you could have 8ms between two frames and 28ms between the next two), which still reads as stutter, with or without VRR.
So it’s not as much of a no-brainer as you may think. That’s basically the same reason Lenovo insiders gave for why the 1600p 144Hz panel in the Lenovo Legion GO is also not VRR. In that case it makes a bit more sense because that’s just 7ms between refreshes, so you may genuinely struggle telling the difference between that and VRR if you’re rendering less than 60fps.
I think Digital Foundry does a lot of good advocacy and educational content, but sometimes they get hung up on pet peeves and give people the wrong impression about which buzzwords are important on which contexts.
Of course Lenovo are going to have marketing for why them saving money is actually better for the consumer. That is just how marketing works. If Valve were at all competent at it, they would be doing the same.
VRR doesn’t stop stutter. But it helps a lot when you have those gradual fluctuations. Think “If I look up, my FPS drops by 20%”. At which point you no loner have to worry at all about multiples to avoid screen tearing or all of that annoying stuff. All of which is REALLY nice when you are at the limits of your system. Whether that is pushing 100-144 FPS or 20-40 FPS. It won’t make it look like it is running perfectly, but it very much helps a lot and there is a reason that VRR is one of those “most noticeable hardware improvements” you can get.
And can we please skip out on the “Oh, people just don’t notice improved graphics and refresh rates anyway” nonsense? I realize the Steam Deck is a handheld, but this isn’t a Nintendo Switch thread.
FWIW, LTT seems to have asked about VRR and they hypothesize, based on the answer, that they’re sourcing from the same place as Nintendo and that is limiting the VRR option: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCVXqoVi6RE
But my point stands in that you’re thinking about the target spec of the display, not the games. There IS a difference between 20-40 and 100-144 fps. First, because it’s a lot harder to keep a steady rate at 7ms frame budgets and second because the sense of stability doesn’t have the same demands.
And yes, it’s a perceptual thing. Some people will be more sensitive than others, but I would feel comfortable showing a 28-30 fps clip to people on a 144Hz vsync and a VRR display and asking them to spot which is which. Simply put the gaps in miliseconds between those two things are going to be too similar to tell apart. I know because I’ve tried. I have 100, 120, 144 and 165 fps displays, both VRR and vsynced. I’ve messed around with this for a long time for fun and profit.
I have no question that VRR would be a slight improvement, but I’m also not surprised that at these levels of speed and size both Lenovo and Valve decided that it wasn’t worth to chase VRR compared to the high refresh alternative. That gels with my own experience.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=uCVXqoVi6RE
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
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If you don’t own a PC handheld and want one this is not a bad time to jump in at all, especially if you’re on a budget.
I don’t expect you’ll see a refresh on this thing again for a couple of years at least. Given how accessible the prices for the Deck are I don’t know if waiting that long makes sense. I mean, there will likely be a Switch 2 at some point in that interval, so if you only want the one handheld that may be something to wait-and-see for, but handheld PCs are PCs, there’s always gonna be a big new thing to look forward to.
That is literally FOMO.
You are “missing out” on nothing and technology gets better every couple months at this rate. I don’t want to put myself at the mercy of ASUS for support, but their handheld is REALLY nice. Similarly, Aya and GPD have been doing this for the better part of a decade and are largely what the Steam Deck was based on. And GPD in particular have some very interesting form factors
Most of the devices out there are geared toward Windows (which plays with Gamepass). In large part because MS have put a lot of effort into touchpad/touchscreen support whereas Linux is… gonna Linux. But there are increasing third party efforts to make linux distros and Valve seem to want to push for SteamOS as a distro (and I think Aya have said they want to use it?).
At the end of the day: if the price is right and you think you’ll use it, get it. If not? Fuck it. Buy something else.
The benefit of the 90hz is that it raises the bar for refresh rate/2 gameplay for latency/performamce requirement.
40hz alone is half of the input latency difference between 30 and 60 fps, and is much more realistic to hit performance numbers for. Some people run it at 40hz for optimized battery/performamce/latency ratio. Setting it to 45 now makes it every frame is evenly doubled. That along with the die shrink/10W/Hr/chemistry changes will allow the battery to last a lot longer on the go, at least on paper
That would make more sense if you couldn’t set the old LCD panel to 45 already. There’s still an advantage to doubling each frame, especially in reducing latency on frame drops, but I don’t think there are any refresh targets under 60 the old panel couldn’t match after they introduced the manual refresh control feature.
The battery life seems much, much better, though. There are already some preview benchmarks that say at minimum TDP you can get to double digit hours on this thing. That’s nuts for a x64 handheld device.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=WfoLRmKwnSI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Some guy on lemmy went on a two paragraph rant on me when I said ‘at this point Ill probably just wait for the next version of the deck’ “oh they’re just rumors and valve would never release another model this early in the decks life and yada yada yada…” Well here we are a month later. Ive been alive long enough to know the next model is ALWAYS right around the corner, because it makes the company money. I wanted a PS4 when it came out but held off then a little while later ps4 pro came out and held off some more, then ps5, now ps5 pro. At this point I don’t even play video games that much anymore so the deck is likely the last ‘console’ ill ever want. I know the game and am one patient motherfucker, if I need to wait a few more years for the deck 2 then by god ill wait.
of course Valve will make a steam deck 2.
They just won’t make a steam deck 3.
Steam deck 2: episode 2
Nice!
I see what you did there. Nice.
Don’t bother. By the time the deck 2 comes out, in 6 months there will be a Deck 2.5.
Never buy or enjoy anything! ONLY think about the future
Alright that last comment got me
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I don’t understand this, then the deck 2 will be out and you’ll then wait for the refresh that’s coming out soon then the deck 3? At that rate you’ll never have a console.
At some point I have to pull the trigger, and I am the kind of person who uses a device until it dies so I would rather that device be a refined variant of the original. This year was hard for me financially so I just couldn’t eat the $ on a 400-600$ game player no matter how much I really wanted it. I was EXTREMELY tempted to get the deck when it went on sale this summer. Hopefully when 2 rolls out I will be in a better financial spot and its design and specs will be improved over the og
Yeah it doesn’t make sense to always wait, but I also disagree with people who say “there’s always something around the corner, so may as well buy immediately, even mid-cycle.” The middle ground for minimizing FOMO is: buy immediately after a new release.
I know exactly when the Switch 2 will be announced.
It will be the same week that the guy at work who has been holding out for it for 3 years finally relents and buys one.
I still occasionally use my OG switch I got in 2017. Its a fine little device in its own right just a shame that its completely cucked by nintendo. No I am not paying a subscription just to play multiplayer and access to half baked emulators. Horrible sales and overpriced games to boot. I can’t see how anyone in 2023 would want a switch 2 when the deck exist. IDC how good the next gen mario zelda or pokemon are nintendo can suck it.
Dude. I’ve been watching the handheld gaming market, and it is exactly like you said. If you wait about 6 months there is already new more powerful device out. Aya neo, Ayntech, anbernic, powkiddy.
Valve in particular is less prone to this kind of thing with their hardware, for example the Steam link, steam controller and Valve Index
Damn, very much tempted to sell mine and buy this OLED version; the LCD screen is pretty much the only feature I dislike.
What would be a fair price to sell a used 256gb version with no damage?
I just bought a refurb 256 for ~$350 out the door ($319 sticker) so I imagine you could get a bite in the high, mid-200’s although you’d probably also be cross-shopped against the 64 GB refurb (that’s mostly out of stock though)
On the used market you’ll be up against 64gb models upgraded with 1TB SSDs, which are a lot better value compared to the 256 or 512 versions from Valve. So look what those cost and subtract around $100, as that’s what the SSD costs.
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Wonder if it would be possible to retrofit the new parts into an existing SteamDeck
I read in a couple spots earlier that the new battery is physically too big and the OLED panel won’t transfer either.
Ah that’s unfortunate if true. Ah well I’m happy with my Steam Deck as is. I’m also sure that some YouTubers will find a way anyway 😂
Even the stick daughterboards are redesigned and the heat sink has different anchor points. None of the internals of these are cross-compatible.
The shell is identical, though, so it seems that sleeves, skins, screen protectors, cases and so on all carry over.
