Image transcription:

it’s a swole doge vs cheems meme

on swole doge side, there are two popups: kCrash and Ubuntu apport. Both have options to see detailed logs and an optional button to send report to developers, along with options to close the popup.
accompanied is a text that reads “Here’s the information. What do you wish to do?”

on crying cheems side, there’s popup for windows and mac. windows has just a cancel button with report being sent already. mac has ignore and report button. there is no option to see logs without reporting on both. here, accompanied text reads, “let’s add this to the personally identifiable information we have on you.”

  • dual_sport_dork 🐧🗡️@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    Two things irritate the shit out of me. First, the “wait while we report this to Microsoft” dialog comes up and implies its transmitting immediately, even for trivial issues, without asking for your confirmation and without indicating what, exactly, it’s sending. (I guess that’s the point of this meme. But a yes/no prompt would be nice?)

    Second is that it does it for absolutely trivial things. Like, the crap point of sale software we use at work can be easily and repeatably made to go into an infinite loop state if you know how to do it, and you have to kill it via Task Manager or whatever. But then this stupid “we’re reporting this to Microsoft” dialog comes up. Oh yeah? You’re reporting it, are you? What the fuck is Microsoft going to do about it, exactly? Send a helicopter so Bill Gates himself can rappel down and bust through the skylight at the office of this two-bit POS software company, guns blazing, hack into their mainframe, and fix their code?

    What a useless thing to show the user.

    • lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.deOP
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      11 months ago

      lol, I like your way with words. and I fully agree and share the sentiment(hence the meme).
      I disliked crash reporting on windows precisely because of inability to cancel it(by the time you hit cancel, it might’ve already been sent).

      nowadays, I don’t use windows at all. sometimes I’m forced to use macos, and this popup comes up. I dislike this one too since I can’t really see what it’s going to send.

      on my home machine I have Debian with i3 and xfce, which hasn’t crashed a single time. and even if it does in some distant future, I’ll be more than happy to send technical info to them.

      • dual_sport_dork 🐧🗡️@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        You can disable error reporting on Windows, by the way. Disable the “Windows Error Reporting” service. Either via Task Manager, or services.msc, or whatever your preferred method is.

        • lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.deOP
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          11 months ago

          don’t use windows now. but will keep it in mind in case i encounter an unfortunate device infected with it.

  • nexussapphire@lemm.ee
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    11 months ago

    To be fair most applications don’t give you shit till you launch it in a terminal. That’s something I’d wish would improve on Linux. My mother would get pretty frustrated so I assume most average people would be too.

    For example lutris recognizes your missing wine but it just loads indefinitely.

    If you don’t have all the dependencies for alacrity it just doesn’t launch.

    If you don’t have all the dependencies for gparted on Wayland it just doesn’t launch.

    Most apps don’t create error messages in the gui and that’s hard for average users to grasp.

    • KrummsHairyBalls@lemmy.ca
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      11 months ago

      Most apps don’t create error messages in the gui and that’s hard for average users to grasp.

      I just went through 3 fucking days of troubleshooting why this program wont work. Finally issued a bug report, it got closed in 30 minutes, dev responded with “ya, those features are currently disabled, terminal will show you a warning when you launch it”.

      Great. And nothing for the GUI users?

      The biggest annoyance to me is that Linux fanboys will say how you never have to touch a terminal if you don’t want to, but when you bring up how ridiculous it is to disable features, keep them enabled on the GUI, and only throw a warning in the terminal, they’ll tell you to use the terminal lol.

      • BURN@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        I’ve found anyone saying “you barely need to touch the command line” is straight up lying. You can do a lot with GUIs, but they’ll always be second class citizens for Linux software developers because those developers do everything through the terminal.

      • nexussapphire@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        As far as I’m concerned still worth it compared to the state of proprietary OSes now a days. The online language model image generation features especially worry me due to the limitless data collection and scrapping capabilities. “Justified” collection of emails, word docs, images, videos, cameras, audio recordings, etc.

        Most people won’t bat an eye until their most intimate details are sitting in a stack of papers on some lawyers desk awaiting a trial over some data breach or antitrust practices.

    • Chobbes@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      I am annoyed whenever I launched something from dmenu and I don’t get error output or logs anywhere.

      I do wonder why you would have missing dependencies for all of these applications? Shouldn’t your package manager handle that…?

      • nexussapphire@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        I was playing with Hyprland back when it was only in the aur. I found it weird too but on something like kde the dependencies must already be there. Also lutris never comes with wine dependencies for some reason.

        • Chobbes@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          I think Lutris can install its own versions of wine which is probably why it’s not included (also you don’t need to use wine at all with Lutris). I guess I’m not surprised you ran into these issues on Arch. I wouldn’t expect this on the more mainstream distros a new Linux user would be likely to use, since these distros are more likely to take a batteries included approach to packaging. I’d hope running into missing dependencies when launching a program is a fairly uncommon experience, at least for anything installed with a package manager on most systems.

  • zaphod@feddit.de
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    11 months ago

    On MacOS if you click on the “Report…” button it expands to something similar to what you see on the left.

      • example@reddthat.com
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        11 months ago

        I’m pretty sure this only goes to Apple, not to the actual developer.

        I believe I’ve even seen devs specifically ask for copies of the reports from the crash reporter, as they wouldn’t receive them otherwise.

        this doesn’t change the rest of your statement though, just afaik the recipient is different.

          • example@reddthat.com
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            11 months ago

            based on https://help.apple.com/xcode/mac/current/#/deve2819c518 it seems like users may need to explicitly enable sharing crash data with app developers.

            I don’t know what the default for this is.

            https://help.apple.com/xcode/mac/current/#/dev9a80ab71d seems to imply that you need to distribute your app via app store or testflight to be able to receive crash reports.
            the majority of apps installed on my mac are not installed via app store, though many of them have app store variants.
            i don’t know if the distribution channel matters or just having the app in app store is enough.
            this article however also explicitly states this, so it appears that you do indeed by default not send this data to app developers:

            users who download your app from the App Store will need to agree to share crash and usage data with developers.

    • lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.deOP
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      11 months ago

      thanks! never clicked that for fear that they’d do something similar to windows.
      I’ll try it next time it comes up.

      maybe there should be a third button for less confusion? or does it go against apple’s “design” principles? :p

      • zaphod@feddit.de
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        11 months ago

        To demonstrate I got an app to crash, this is what you see when you click on the report button. The report is longer, trying to show where the app crashed, at the bottom there’s a button to send a report to apple

        • lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.deOP
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          11 months ago

          looks much better than what I’d thought. thanks for sharing mate! BTW, the interface is in French, right?

          • zaphod@feddit.de
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            11 months ago

            Yes, on the bottom it says on the left to hide the details, and on the right don’t send and send to apple.

      • AnActOfCreation@programming.dev
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        11 months ago

        maybe there should be a third button for less confusion?

        I think it’s fine as is. Three dots after a button / menu item imply more interaction is required before an action is taken.

      • lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.deOP
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        11 months ago

        update: doesn’t have button on my machine.
        just two buttons: show/hide details, and report. can’t even go back or close it.

        screenshot of pop-up after report was clicked same poou-up, just expanded

    • Kidplayer_666@lemm.ee
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      11 months ago

      I might be doing something wrong, but the crash reports themselves are damn near useless

      • lemmesay@discuss.tchncs.deOP
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        11 months ago

        yes, there should be a description box for sending additional inputs from the user. like what were they trying to do.

        but GNU/Linux developers are already saddled with a lot of work, and I don’t mind restarting the app at all. :)

        • AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          I seem to remember that a text input field for details is available in the general tab.

          I don’t get many crashes in kde so I haven’t seen the dialogue in a while.

  • katy ✨@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    11 months ago

    me: ugh this program won’t work lemme ctrl alt delete

    windows: hold on lemme spend three minutes reporting this to microsoft

  • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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    11 months ago

    If you don’t even open Event Viewer on Windows, are you really so computer savvy as you claim you are?

    • Holzkohlen@feddit.de
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      11 months ago

      Oh god, this gives me PTSD of trying to troubleshoots my buddies new machine which I built. I will die happy if I never have to so much as look at the event viewer ever again.

  • somenonewho@feddit.de
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    11 months ago

    Well of course they need to report your information to Microsoft, after all the application crashed on your computer and since it’s a Microsoft application it can’t be the fault of the application (also why you don’t see an error Log) so you must have been holding it wrong so they need your info to find out how you were holding it wrong.

    • macniel@feddit.de
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      11 months ago

      if you want to see the logs you have eventmgr.msc which consolidates all logs in one place.

      • somenonewho@feddit.de
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        11 months ago

        As stated above. I know that there are actual logs produced (I honestly would not have known where to look for them by heart but that’s my shortcoming) my comment was meant to be sarcastic sorry for dropping that /s

    • Honytawk@lemmy.zip
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      11 months ago

      The fuck are you smoking?

      Or (which is a lot more likely) it sends data so Microsoft can improve the software and fix the bug that you encountered in their software.

      (Why would they want to receive crash dumps if they don’t believe to be at fault? That is just dumb logic)

      If you want to see logs, you can just open the Event Viewer. It is a bit hidden because non-tech savvy people like you don’t understand it.

  • ares35@kbin.social
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    11 months ago

    only once have i seen the crash reporter in windows actually do something beneficial and report back an actual fix.

  • Phanlix@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    I’d love to switch to linux. But I love the video games, and I’m a pirate, because I’m broke. Until Linux gets real support for games, I can’t join.

    • ExperimentalGuy@programming.dev
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      11 months ago

      Dual boot or vm or use proton. The steam deck uses Linux and uses proton. I haven’t had a game not run smoothly while using proton either.

      • WarlordSdocy@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        I tried dual booting for a while but eventually I just stopped using the Linux side. Didn’t really have a reason to switch over when everything worked fine on Windows. Id just keep using windows after I used whatever software or game only worked on windows cause it was just more convenient. I did really like Linux and there were a lot of really cool things about it but until Linux reaches a point where all the big games, both on and off steam, work on Linux without having to follow some guide I just don’t think it’s for me.

          • nogrub@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            just asking have you tried teamtinkerlaunch with that mo2 and vortex work fine on linux i even get better performance with proton and it fixes my sound issues i had with skyrim on windows and you can do a windll override to fix the wanky mouse movements

        • BURN@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Exact same thing here. Once I needed to reboot multiple times per day to use my computer I’m just angry and unhappy with the tool that’s no longer doing the job I need it to.

          Since the games I play are primarily windows only, I stuck with the side I spend most of my time in.

        • ExperimentalGuy@programming.dev
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          11 months ago

          Ya that makes sense. I find a lot of my work is mostly stuff that’s easier to use on Linux, like spinning up VMs or just programming in general. What programs do you use that aren’t compatible or dont have an alternative on Linux?

          • WarlordSdocy@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            It was mostly games (mainly Microsoft ones, no surprise there) and the fact that at the time I was going to college for game programming, so needed to use stuff like Unity and Unreal Engine. Which I think I saw with Unreal Engine you can make it work on Linux but you had to like compile it yourself and I didn’t want to deal with running into problems with that since I was using it for my classes. Although now that I’ve graduated I might give it a try, see if anything has changed since I last gave Linux a shot. Just seems like in general a lot of game development stuff is done more on Windows unless you’re not using a commercial engine.

            • ExperimentalGuy@programming.dev
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              11 months ago

              Omg yeah that makes sense. I have the same thing but with excel, one of my classes it’s like a must have so I just pop open a VM to get it running bc I don’t want to figure out how to wine it. I’m using PopOS rn and it’s really easy to use and install drivers, so if you’re gonna get back into a Linux distro I’d def recommend that.

              • WarlordSdocy@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                Pop Os was actually what I used before funnily enough and yeah I found it really nice. Probably will try that again when I get the chance.

      • Phanlix@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Knowing that steamdeck uses Linux does give me hope. I’m rocking a 3080ti though, how’s that Nvidia support coming along these days?

        Next build will likely be AMD, but unfortunately I build PCs to last.

        My first PC had dual 660s SLI, which was over 16 years ago and can still handle most AAA games. Baldurs Gate 3 was the first to make it run in low graphics.

        My second PC was built when the 1080ti came out and that’s still running my VR room.

        This PC I just built is similarly designed to last upwards of a decade, and still will be a contender after that. So maybe another 7 to 10 years before I build a Linux PC .

        I’m old enough to remember when wine came out and how excited everyone was we were finally going to have games in Linux lol.

        • ExperimentalGuy@programming.dev
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          11 months ago

          Nvidia support’s pretty good honestly from my experience. I have a 2000s series in my computer rn and I haven’t run into any issues honestly

          • Phanlix@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Seriously? Hmmmmm well I guess we’ll try linux for the umpteenth time again. I’m seeing some new program names and processes here since last time I tried, so who knows? It may actually be up to the task for my day to day. That’d be nice, I’m not a fan of cloud based Operating systems. I bought my hardware, I like to own it, not give it to whatever software corp is installed on it.

            • ExperimentalGuy@programming.dev
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              11 months ago

              Yeah it was honestly weird for me too bc I had always heard that you need to go team red if you want to use Linux but i don’t know if it’s that everyone else is lying or I’m amazing but I’ll just assume I’m goated with the sauce

    • Gunpachi@lemmings.world
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      11 months ago

      Just use Bottles or Heroic Launcher to play the pirated games on your computer. Most of the games I tried have worked.

      The only exceptions are Multiplayer games like Apex and valorant. Apex is not smooth enough to play competitively (last I checked was a few months ago) and Valorant doesnt work on Linux because of it’s rootkit anti cheat. If you only play single player games Linux is definitely worth a shot.

      If it weren’t for a few Multiplayer games and my crappy epson printer I’d have completely wiped windows off of my computer.