‘Your Turn’: United Auto Workers Launches Campaign to Unionize Tesla::After the UAW won contracts with the Big Three, it’s seeking to unionize 150,000 workers across a dozen companies including Tesla.

  • specseaweed@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    This is a very exciting time. I’ve been a union guy for 25 years and I will go to my grave not understanding the fierce resistance to unions by my X gen and the boomers. When they would say unions were bad, I’d say let’s make ours amazing and… they just refused.

    I never thought I would see the resurgence of American labor unions. This is an absolute joy to see.

    • Buddahriffic@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I’ve been in one union and it was a corrupt joke. That said, it was still the best unskilled job I’ve had by a large margin.

      • vagrantprodigy@lemmy.whynotdrs.org
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        7 months ago

        I’ve been in two, and both of them were this way. Tossed most of us under the bus to protect a small group of older employees. We definitely need more unionization, but we also need to weed out the unions that are counterproductive.

          • TheSanSabaSongbird@lemdro.id
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            7 months ago

            Public employee unions are a bit different though because unlike labor unions there is a third interested party in addition to management and labor, namely the public.

    • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I’ve been a union guy for 25 years and I will go to my grave not understanding the fierce resistance to unions by my X gen and the boomers.

      Certain specific professions like IT, and its mercenary culture, don’t fit well with the collective bargaining model. For many other professions/careers, a union can be a great tool for workers.

      • honey_im_meat_grinding@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        7 months ago

        By “IT” do you mean tech? Because as a software engineer, I’ve seen turnover rates of 1-2 years for some of my favorite people I’ve worked with. If they actually had bargaining power, we know via studies done on unions and turnover rates that these engineers likely wouldn’t dip as quickly and take institutional knowledge and their smart brains with them. Tech is so allergic to unions that it is literally inflicting damage onto itself - managers will tell you how expensive it is to hire new people because it takes months for them to catch up to your codebase, but the higher-up leadership is completely unwilling to listen to the data on how to actually retain people. They don’t care if unions increase productivity or that the elasticity between productivity and salary is >1.0 as the unionisation rate grows (per studies done in Norway), because they don’t want to lose their complete control over companies to collective bargaining.

        • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          You’re making good arguments why a company employing IT staff (software devs, engineers, architects), but where is the argument to the benefit of the worker themselves in this case?

          I’ve seen turnover rates of 1-2 years for some of my favorite people I’ve worked with.

          This is a benefit to the worker. They’re leaving because they got a better paying gig or less work/fewer hours for the same amount of money.

          • honey_im_meat_grinding@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            7 months ago

            This is a benefit to the worker. They’re leaving because they got a better paying gig or less work/fewer hours for the same amount of money.

            Yes, because there’s no union there to bargain for better pay, bonuses, more time off work, and so forth. Tech is a new industry where workers have more bargaining power on an individual level because expertise is so sought after. Now imagine combining that with unions and we’d probably all be doing 4 day work weeks already, like unions are currently bargaining for in various countries. We’d likely also have more time for tech debt, as unions increase certain types of innovation.

            Like, if unions can do this for McDonalds workers after a sympathy strike in Nordic countries:

            Every few months, a prominent person or publication points out that McDonalds workers in Denmark receive $22 per hour, 6 weeks of vacation, and sick pay. This compensation comes on top of the general slate of social benefits in Denmark, which includes child allowances, health care, child care, paid leave, retirement, and education through college, among other things.

            Why would we assume tech workers in a very profitable industry wouldn’t be able to get away with even more?

            • partial_accumen@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              Yes, because there’s no union there to bargain for better pay, bonuses, more time off work, and so forth. Tech is a new industry where workers have more bargaining power on an individual level because expertise is so sought after.

              We’re in agreement. The individual has all the power to bargain for themselves better pay, bonuses, more time off work, and so forth. A union in this case not only adds no value, but subtracts value because it dilutes the benefits across more people. There is certainly a good chunk of dead weight in IT, those that let their skills stagnate or don’t put in effort to the team. I’ve worked with a number of them. At one point I’ve personally been one of them before I understood it. Much of the individual bargaining means gaining resources that, if spread evenly, would go to some of that dead weight. Keep in mind, even dead weight in IT pays pretty decently. Those folks aren’t going hungry. In some ways its one of the few partial meritocracies left, though merit here is not only technical skills but soft people skills combined.

              We’d likely also have more time for tech debt, as unions increase certain types of innovation.

              Again, this is mostly an organizational benefit, not an employee one. If the employer doesn’t heed the warnings of the employees that tech debt is increasing and becoming a business risk to the organization, the employee doesn’t have to fall on their sword to try to save the employer in spite of themselves. The employee jumps to another employer which pays more (or requires less hours). The new employer may have equally or possibly even more tech debt. So the situation for the work is unchanged but the employee’s salary and benefits are increased. This is the mercenary culture of IT I was referring to.

              Why would we assume tech workers in a very profitable industry wouldn’t be able to get away with even more?

              Because those at the far end of skilled are getting less to level out those that are less skilled or less committed. Ultimately it IS a zero sum game.

              Keep in mind, many IT skills can be very “flash in the pan” or trendy. One year you’re in extremely high demand able to demand top dollar, and others your skills are out of market favor and saturated with IT workers with the same skills that aren’t in demand and what you can earn with what you know is drastically reduced. It requires the constant prognostication of what going to be in demand next, and the effort to learn those skills to be skilled up if those skills go up in value for a time. Its a huge gamble. You bet right sometimes can demand a kings ransom for more hours than you can bill. Other years you bet on the wrong skills and have learned something nearly worthless or so short lived it wasn’t worth the effort.

              Savvy IT people (and other industries that work the same) understand this cyclical nature and save during the fat years to be able to live okay during the lean years.

              • JDubbleu@programming.dev
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                7 months ago

                Couldn’t agree more as a software engineer who recently switched jobs. Unions are fucking amazing in most industries, but I can’t help but feel it would hurt workers more than it would benefit us in tech. You could guarantee 5% a year raises indefinitely and it still wouldn’t be enough. Even at companies where you consistently get 10% raises per year + bonus you can just jump and hit 20%+.

                Software engineers can also have insane risk tolerance career-wise because we make enough money to build massive emergency funds and investment portfolios to fall back on if things go south. This is all without considering that sometimes you just don’t vibe with a team, or you stop learning and want to go elsewhere to expand your skill set. Under a union, which usually awards people based on tenure, you’d be punished for making these sorts of moves despite them making you a better software engineer.

    • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip
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      7 months ago

      If they were up against a competent c-suite, this would be a failed effort from the start.

      “cybertruck” is going to be a massive flop and and an embarassment and that is a perfect opportunity to “downsize” and have a semi-legit reason to fire anyone who doesn’t spit with enough vigor at any calls for unionizing.

      But acknowledging that glorified SUV is a flop is a step too far and it will be marketed as a success. Which gets rid of the cover.

      I have no idea if UAW will succeed. But I think we are looking at a LOT of wrongful termination lawsuits (speaking of, did the twitter ones go anywhere?) and a massive poorly executed social media campaign.

  • ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one
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    7 months ago

    Really love Shawn Fain’s attitude of fighting with the corporations. More victories unions to start win, the easier it will be grow unions across of sorts of different industries.

    We had Starbucks stores unionize, an Amazon warehouse unionize, and UAW winning major concessions.

    • Adub@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I was a little bit worried about Shawn’s strategy but he married his big pitch to the tried & true method of pressuring Ford first(more family owned & Detroit/Michigan connection to contend with). Proud to say he got a lot a lot of the strong labor points out there in the public. Glad we are seeing benefit from having more labor friendly president(we can always do better but glad we have something).

    • jandar_fett@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Man is gonna fuck around and get ass-assinated.

      EDIT: That means he is doing a bang up job for those not paying attention

  • Uglyhead@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    I can’t believe this. You will ruin the company and make it go away. Earth will remember this! Fuck off!

    Muskrat— probably.

    • Cosmic Cleric@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Now if only they had the same support that unions do in Sweden

      More people believe in unions than you may realize.

      Don’t just focus in on the shills/bots and what they’re saying.

    • SirQuackTheDuck@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      “Son of slavery-driven diamond mine owner refuses union talks!”, “how to eat dogshit”, and much more, coming up after the break.

      • tsonfeir@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        I’m sure Elon Musk believes that dog shit is very nutritious and all of us at the bottom should be glad to have some

  • Merlin404@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Go go you! Most people in Sweden expect those that drive Tesla want a union to! It should be the default on all bigger companies!

    • hark@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      That’ll go about as well as the full self-driving capability of tesla vehicles.

    • Liz@midwest.social
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      7 months ago

      They originally over-relied on automation in their factories, to Elon’s own admission. There’s just some tasks that humans will always be better at, until we see a fundamental change in robotics. And no, the current AI fad is not enough.

      • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        They’ve been working to solve those problems as well so they are more robot friendly. One of the problems was the wiring harness being limp/flexible so they started using a more rigid wiring system.

        Probably not good enough to have a robot replace it yet, but I bet a change like that also reduces the people hours required reducing head counts

        Edit: I was just thinking about this more, and with the cybertruck now using ethernet in its 48v system, I wonder if this will be as relevant given there’s less cabling. I guess even then it’d still be easier to have something rigid around it, but maybe it’s not even worth it now.

  • trackcharlie@lemmynsfw.com
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    7 months ago

    Tesla will allow a union the same time mcdonalds or starbucks allows a union.

    We can pretend unions will solve the problems but the reality is regardless of what any worker wants their jobs are going to be automated so it needs to be a group effort to force the allowance of free re-education/re-training into a different profession (i.e. UBI with stipulations that you must retrain into a new job until all jobs are automated).

    There are no other options and you can’t expect a company to keep a position open for a human that needs breaks, sleep and to eat when their competition is automating fully and saving more money than they are because they were forced to or chose to keep humans on staff.

    This is not the age where unions have any effective impact, especially when almost every job available today will be eliminated in the next decade through direct mechanical automation or AI automation.

    The only thing unions can do is push protectionism and that will kill the economy by killing companies and then we lose the companies, the tax revenue AND the jobs.

    • Holyginz@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Well that was a whole bunch of bullshit. I hope you are at least getting paid by a company for that take because otherwise you are just spouting propaganda for nothing.