You may have noticed a distinct lack of return2ozma. This is due to their admitting, in a public comment, that their engagement here is in bad faith:

I’m sure there will be questions, let me see if I can address the most obvious ones:

  1. Can I still post negative stuff about Biden?

Absolutely! We have zero interest in running an echo chamber. However, if ALL you’re posting is negative, you may want to re-think your priorities. You get out of the world what you put into it and all that.

  1. Why now?

Presumption of innocence. It may be my own fault, but I do try to think the best of people, and even though they were posting negative articles, they weren’t necessarily WRONG. Biden’s poll numbers, particularly in minority demographics ARE in the shitter. They are starting to get better, but he still has a hell of a hill to climb.

  1. Why a 30 day temp ban and not a permanent ban?

The articles return2ozma shared weren’t bad, faked, or from some wing-nut bias site like “beforeitsnews.com”, they were legitimate articles from established and respected news agencies, pointing out the valid problems Biden faces.

The problem was ONLY posting the negatives, over and over and then openly admitting that dishonest enagement is their purpose.

Had they all been bullshit articles? It would not have taken anywhere near this much time to lay the ban and it would have been permanent.

30 days seems enough time for them to re-think their strategery and come back to engage honestly.

tl;dr - https://youtu.be/C6BYzLIqKB8#t=7s

  • mozz@mbin.grits.dev
    1·
    4 months ago

    I just don’t think any of these things are happening

    Lmao, I mean… Disagree? Look, it’s right here even

    So to deal with the four bullet points one by one in more detail:

    • I am very confident that I never suggested that voting was the only thing that mattered. Someone saying that voting does matter is in no way saying that it’s the only thing that matters. I think you will be hard pressed to find even a single comment on Lemmy saying that voting is the only thing that matters.
    • I don’t think I am discouraging all dissent. I give vocal dissent to the Biden administration on Israel, as does the vast majority on Lemmy. You could maybe say that I’m trying to “enforce support” by presenting my logic in favor of voting for him in general, but I’ve also posted articles from Ralph Nader explaining how to withhold voting in order to put pressure on Democrats to produce better outcomes and said that I think that’s a good thing to do. My main objection to the “I’ll never vote for Biden” viewpoint is that it enables a 10 times worse outcome and does nothing to create the better-than-Biden outcome that you seem like you’re claiming you want – but I am not demanding that people support Biden or else. I think we both want better outcomes than Biden, and we are holding a discussion about how we could get them.
    • I do discourage dissemination of coverage that is unflattering to Biden, if I think it’s dishonest – but the issue is the dishonesty, not the unflattering. When it seems honest (e.g. when it pertains to Israel) I encourage it, I post it myself, again as does the majority on Lemmy.
    • I don’t launch any crusade (even accepting that framing for typing a comment on the internet) against anyone who’s insufficiently emphatic. If someone’s actively hostile to the idea of voting in this election, then yes I’ll disagree with them sometimes strongly and explain why, but that is allowed, yes? Almost everyone on the internet will sometimes “launch a crusade” against viewpoints they disagree with, by that definition.

    I get what you’re saying in breaking down that paragraph of mine, and I can respond to what you’re saying about it if you want me to, but I feel like I need to point out that in my eyes not a single one of those bullet points is in it, or anywhere near it.

    You said earlier “Most people who share my perspective have long since stopped trying to argue anything in good faith at all with centrists.” I’m gonna be honest, I have reached that same point with a lot of the lemmy.ml hivemind, and this is why. You are wildly mischaracterizing what I actually think, to the point where you’re saying things I strongly disagree with (e.g. voting is the only thing that matters, any dissent against Biden is forbidden) and then attributing them to me.

    The conversation I would like to have with you is, we need better outcomes than Biden, how do we get there. It is frustrating and pointless to have to over and over again have that much more productive conversation be recast as, I am supporting Biden no matter what and squashing any dissent against him and actively hostile to anything better than him, and then for me to have to try to explain that that’s not accurate and be lectured about the contents of my own mind and my own opinions, and have an extended debate about it where I’m apparently not allowed to the be the authority on what I think and what my opinions are.

    Surely that makes sense? Or no?