Question I'd like to hear everyone's thoughts on possibly making votes public. This has been discussed in a lot of other issues, but here's a dedicated one for discussion. Positives Could help figh...
Probably better to post in the github issue rather than replying here.
This feels a bit of a conversation-shutting argument. Lots of things (good and bad) will happen on a platform that has billions of users. The real question is to about many of those instances happened solely due to the data being (easily) available to the public.
In any case, I really don’t think that the solution to the problem of targeted harassment is by providing quote-unquote-privacy, and I’d rather we spent more time educating the people on how to use actually secure and private communications platform instead of sacrificing Transparency and Accountability for the sake of a vocal minority who will keep trying to turn the “Open Social Web” (which is meant to be open and public) into their exclusive, cocooned service.
That’s because it’s supposed to be. I was on Reddit for a decade until their management shit the bed, and these kinds of problems weren’t a thing there despite the much larger userbase.
For the record, to me it’s less about privacy and more about setting expectations. I’m not anonymous online, I’m pseudonymous, I’ve had this handle for a long time. I am my online identity, and when I post and vote I don’t feel anonymous, even if I’m relatively protected from someone knocking on my door or messaging my boss about a statement.
If voting “ledgers” aren’t presented in the discussion, that’s because they aren’t intended to be part of the discussion. This reduces the value of influential individuals votes (ooh Bill Gates liked X, Kamala Harris disliked Y etc.) and shifts focus to how the community values of the content. It’s the same reason that we follow communities rather than individuals. We get an internet “hive mind” of sorts without cult of personality.
These specific kinds of things were not a problem, yet it didn’t stop the mob from doxxing people “by mistake”, getting the police breaking into people homes based on false allegations or getting people fired over something stupid that was said years ago…
If this is about “expectations” of privacy, then it would be better to just expect the worst always and only write/post/share things when you are 100% sure you don’t mind them being ever attributed to you.
Expectations of what is part of the discussion, not expectations of privacy.
As for doxxing, that’s a problem with all social media - but possibly worse on the “regular” ones (people having mobs attacking their houses, being arrested in countries with censorship laws etc.)
shifts focus to how the community values of the content.
Ok, I think I get your point, but I can tell you that in my experience is the exact opposite:
The hivemind effect is strong, and a lot perfectly-acceptable content gets up/downvoted by people just because the score is already high/low.
I have been posting quite a bit since I joined Lemmy in the different niche communities from the instances that I run. Invariably I see downvotes from people who are not subscribers. I’ve sent DMs to some of them asking what was wrong with the post, and the answer was simply “this is not interesting to me”. I replied saying “Look, this isn’t Reddit. There is no algorithm. If you are not interested in the content from this community either block it or don’t browse by all”. Their response was a basic “how dare you tell me how to browse Lemmy?!” Unsurprisingly, when I tried to bring this up for general discussion, I was mass downvoted for the majority that thinks that “downvotes-as-disagreement” is okay..
So, yeah… In my view, for better or worse votes are part of the conversation. If people were using votes as a valid filter for content quality, I’d totally agree with you. If there is a mass of people downvoting a comment or post that seems to be aligned with the community’s values, I feel like I should know why about the comment is deserving of the downvotes. At the very least, I think it’s important to know who is downvoting for legitimate reasons and who is downvoting just because they are a whiny brat that should be ignored/muted/blocked.
We’ve already seen that kind of harrasment on major platforms including X and those owned by Meta.
This feels a bit of a conversation-shutting argument. Lots of things (good and bad) will happen on a platform that has billions of users. The real question is to about many of those instances happened solely due to the data being (easily) available to the public.
In any case, I really don’t think that the solution to the problem of targeted harassment is by providing quote-unquote-privacy, and I’d rather we spent more time educating the people on how to use actually secure and private communications platform instead of sacrificing Transparency and Accountability for the sake of a vocal minority who will keep trying to turn the “Open Social Web” (which is meant to be open and public) into their exclusive, cocooned service.
That’s because it’s supposed to be. I was on Reddit for a decade until their management shit the bed, and these kinds of problems weren’t a thing there despite the much larger userbase.
For the record, to me it’s less about privacy and more about setting expectations. I’m not anonymous online, I’m pseudonymous, I’ve had this handle for a long time. I am my online identity, and when I post and vote I don’t feel anonymous, even if I’m relatively protected from someone knocking on my door or messaging my boss about a statement.
If voting “ledgers” aren’t presented in the discussion, that’s because they aren’t intended to be part of the discussion. This reduces the value of influential individuals votes (ooh Bill Gates liked X, Kamala Harris disliked Y etc.) and shifts focus to how the community values of the content. It’s the same reason that we follow communities rather than individuals. We get an internet “hive mind” of sorts without cult of personality.
These specific kinds of things were not a problem, yet it didn’t stop the mob from doxxing people “by mistake”, getting the police breaking into people homes based on false allegations or getting people fired over something stupid that was said years ago…
If this is about “expectations” of privacy, then it would be better to just expect the worst always and only write/post/share things when you are 100% sure you don’t mind them being ever attributed to you.
Expectations of what is part of the discussion, not expectations of privacy.
As for doxxing, that’s a problem with all social media - but possibly worse on the “regular” ones (people having mobs attacking their houses, being arrested in countries with censorship laws etc.)
Ok, I think I get your point, but I can tell you that in my experience is the exact opposite:
The hivemind effect is strong, and a lot perfectly-acceptable content gets up/downvoted by people just because the score is already high/low.
I have been posting quite a bit since I joined Lemmy in the different niche communities from the instances that I run. Invariably I see downvotes from people who are not subscribers. I’ve sent DMs to some of them asking what was wrong with the post, and the answer was simply “this is not interesting to me”. I replied saying “Look, this isn’t Reddit. There is no algorithm. If you are not interested in the content from this community either block it or don’t browse by all”. Their response was a basic “how dare you tell me how to browse Lemmy?!” Unsurprisingly, when I tried to bring this up for general discussion, I was mass downvoted for the majority that thinks that “downvotes-as-disagreement” is okay..
So, yeah… In my view, for better or worse votes are part of the conversation. If people were using votes as a valid filter for content quality, I’d totally agree with you. If there is a mass of people downvoting a comment or post that seems to be aligned with the community’s values, I feel like I should know why about the comment is deserving of the downvotes. At the very least, I think it’s important to know who is downvoting for legitimate reasons and who is downvoting just because they are a whiny brat that should be ignored/muted/blocked.