Which hardly matters when people are taking the homes of people living there currently and killing them. What difference does it make if some of someone’s ancestors centuries ago lived in that general part of the world?
You could justify European colonialism in Africa under similar logic, on the grounds that since humans evolved there before spreading out to the rest of the world, all Europeans have ancestors that lived on that continent at some point in the past and would merely be “reclaiming” it.
I don’t know if I’ve seen anyone arguing for that. Even the people wanting to get rid of the state of Israel aren’t usually wanting to remove the people. Prior to Israel forming, Jews and Muslims lived together in relative peace and harmony. They still do in many places.
The issue comes when one group is told that the land belongs to them specifically, or that the other group is inferior or evil. I don’t think removing Israel is a solution at this point, but it does need to fundamentally change. I don’t see a possibility for an ethno-state to not create these ideas. It needs to just become a state, not a state for jews specifically.
It’s impossible to remove the state of Israel without evicting / killing it’s Jewish population. They are surrounded by entire states that base their culture on wanting to kill as many Jews as possible. What do you think would happen if the entire land suddenly became Palestine and they weren’t permitted to protect themselves anymore?
It’s impossible now. The reason why they all want to kill them is because they purchased land, refused to hire Muslims who used to work there, then murdered them when they retaliated and stole more land with militias. It makes sense the other people are upset about that.
I remember discussion on making Jerusalem an international zone. I think this would have been better done, even if it results in an immovable ladder. Jerusalem is actually quite interesting for a lot of things like this, like how the keys for the church containing Jesus’ empty tomb is held by a Muslim family, or how the Temple Mount is a place of significance for all three of the religions.
Yes, I don’t think Israel should be destroyed, for the record, there’s been enough time since it’s founding that people have been born and grown up there without having a say in it’s founding after all. But the Palestinians need to be full citizens of some state or another, a proper state with international recognition, sovereignty and the capacity to defend itself against Israel in the future to the extent that is reasonably possible. In theory that could be an Isreal that didn’t discriminate against them, but as far as current tensions stand, that seems very unlikely to be stable without one group or the other seeking to disenfranchise the other or worse, so they should have their own state, or states potentially depending on how one decides to handle the issue of the west bank and gaza not being geographically connected.
No one is stopping them from forming their own state on their own land. In fact most of the world supports it.
But they choose not to because they want the entire land that Israel is on despite not having the rights or the means to obtain it.
Israel is absolutely stopping them from forming their own state in the west bank and Gaza, indeed, the fact that Israeli settlements keep getting built on the west bank makes it actively harder over time for such a state to be created. The agreement of much of the world doesnt help much when the land in question is under occupation.
Yep. That’s why I personally think it’s dumb to try and argue for the dissolution of Israel at this point. It’s too late. All you can do at this point is damage control and to try and find an equitable solution to the Israel-Palestine problem that gives both groups the ability to self-govern.
It’d be like kicking all the Russians out of former USSR countries, or Chinese out of Tibet, or white people out of the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
Israel should be held accountable for what they’ve done to the Palestinians, but I also don’t think you can reasonably expect for everyone in Israel to pack up and leave at this point.
Jesus fuck if that’s really what you got from my comment
This you?
It’d be like kicking all the Russians out of former USSR countries, or Chinese out of Tibet, or white people out of the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
I could swear that was you, pretending that decolonialism (somehow) automatically results in the expulsion of this or that people. You know, like a person who only views the world through a white supremacist lens would?
So I take it there is now no objection to the dismantling and destruction of the state of Israel? Or are you still conflating Jewishness with Israel? You know, like white supremacists do?
Some did, but the whole point of Israel was a place for European countries to send their Jewish populations.
People who even if they were also ethnically Semitic, were descended from people who voluntarily left the area generations ago.
They could have immigrated there, instead European governments just declared it was theirs now.
Like, imagine if every American with Irish heritage were granted birthright citizenship there and the people who never left are shoved down into an ever shrinking slice of land. That’s what’s happening
Weird then how the majority of Palestinians are a genetically unbroken set of lineages from before the kingdoms of Israel and Judah.
Some deportations from very specific areas happened, like from Jerusalem to the West Bank during Roman rule.
Look up the history of the Beta Israelis / Ethiopian Jews and their treatment in the reconstituted state of Israel.
Compare that to the treatment of Afrikaner Israeli converts emigrating from South Africa and Russian/Ukrainian Jews fleeing violence in the current Russo-Ukraine War.
Jewish people lived next to muslim people in arab countries for a very long time but then ww2 happened and the dumbass americans decided that doing what the nazis wanted to do originally is a good idea so they just kinda said that the european jews should move to this random desert where a lot of middle eastern jews live. You wouldnt deport all the south american, african, asian, etc christians to europe just because of their religion.
Well, except Europeans never lived in America before Columbus, but Jews did live in Palestine/ Middle East
Which hardly matters when people are taking the homes of people living there currently and killing them. What difference does it make if some of someone’s ancestors centuries ago lived in that general part of the world?
You could justify European colonialism in Africa under similar logic, on the grounds that since humans evolved there before spreading out to the rest of the world, all Europeans have ancestors that lived on that continent at some point in the past and would merely be “reclaiming” it.
Although wouldn’t kicking the Jews out of Palestine be doing exactly the same thing all over again?
I don’t know if I’ve seen anyone arguing for that. Even the people wanting to get rid of the state of Israel aren’t usually wanting to remove the people. Prior to Israel forming, Jews and Muslims lived together in relative peace and harmony. They still do in many places.
The issue comes when one group is told that the land belongs to them specifically, or that the other group is inferior or evil. I don’t think removing Israel is a solution at this point, but it does need to fundamentally change. I don’t see a possibility for an ethno-state to not create these ideas. It needs to just become a state, not a state for jews specifically.
It’s impossible to remove the state of Israel without evicting / killing it’s Jewish population. They are surrounded by entire states that base their culture on wanting to kill as many Jews as possible. What do you think would happen if the entire land suddenly became Palestine and they weren’t permitted to protect themselves anymore?
It’s impossible now. The reason why they all want to kill them is because they purchased land, refused to hire Muslims who used to work there, then murdered them when they retaliated and stole more land with militias. It makes sense the other people are upset about that.
I remember discussion on making Jerusalem an international zone. I think this would have been better done, even if it results in an immovable ladder. Jerusalem is actually quite interesting for a lot of things like this, like how the keys for the church containing Jesus’ empty tomb is held by a Muslim family, or how the Temple Mount is a place of significance for all three of the religions.
Yes, I don’t think Israel should be destroyed, for the record, there’s been enough time since it’s founding that people have been born and grown up there without having a say in it’s founding after all. But the Palestinians need to be full citizens of some state or another, a proper state with international recognition, sovereignty and the capacity to defend itself against Israel in the future to the extent that is reasonably possible. In theory that could be an Isreal that didn’t discriminate against them, but as far as current tensions stand, that seems very unlikely to be stable without one group or the other seeking to disenfranchise the other or worse, so they should have their own state, or states potentially depending on how one decides to handle the issue of the west bank and gaza not being geographically connected.
No one is stopping them from forming their own state on their own land. In fact most of the world supports it. But they choose not to because they want the entire land that Israel is on despite not having the rights or the means to obtain it.
Israel is absolutely stopping them from forming their own state in the west bank and Gaza, indeed, the fact that Israeli settlements keep getting built on the west bank makes it actively harder over time for such a state to be created. The agreement of much of the world doesnt help much when the land in question is under occupation.
Yep. That’s why I personally think it’s dumb to try and argue for the dissolution of Israel at this point. It’s too late. All you can do at this point is damage control and to try and find an equitable solution to the Israel-Palestine problem that gives both groups the ability to self-govern.
It’d be like kicking all the Russians out of former USSR countries, or Chinese out of Tibet, or white people out of the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.
Israel should be held accountable for what they’ve done to the Palestinians, but I also don’t think you can reasonably expect for everyone in Israel to pack up and leave at this point.
Yeah, I believe the two state solution is probably the most logical
I guess you also believe there’s a “White Genocide” going on in South Africa, right?
Plkease stop looking at the world like a white supremacist. For your own sake.
Jesus fuck if that’s really what you got from my comment then you need to get off the Internet and get some serious help, dude.
Are you okay? I’m actually kinda concerned.
This you?
I could swear that was you, pretending that decolonialism (somehow) automatically results in the expulsion of this or that people. You know, like a person who only views the world through a white supremacist lens would?
So I take it there is now no objection to the dismantling and destruction of the state of Israel? Or are you still conflating Jewishness with Israel? You know, like white supremacists do?
Why do you conflate Jewishness with Israel?
I’m referring to the ethnic Jews right now
Some did, but the whole point of Israel was a place for European countries to send their Jewish populations.
People who even if they were also ethnically Semitic, were descended from people who voluntarily left the area generations ago.
They could have immigrated there, instead European governments just declared it was theirs now.
Like, imagine if every American with Irish heritage were granted birthright citizenship there and the people who never left are shoved down into an ever shrinking slice of land. That’s what’s happening
There have been forced deportations from that area for millenia. They’re talked about in the Bible and the Romans did it.
Weird then how the majority of Palestinians are a genetically unbroken set of lineages from before the kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Some deportations from very specific areas happened, like from Jerusalem to the West Bank during Roman rule.
I’m not sure the point you’re trying to make…I was just pointing out that “voluntarily leaving what is now Israel” is wildly misleading and wrong
My point is you’re incorrect. Jews have continuously lived in what is now Israel for 4000 years.
Where did I say anything about Jews not living there continuously? Idk what you’re talking about now
Look up the history of the Beta Israelis / Ethiopian Jews and their treatment in the reconstituted state of Israel.
Compare that to the treatment of Afrikaner Israeli converts emigrating from South Africa and Russian/Ukrainian Jews fleeing violence in the current Russo-Ukraine War.
You’ll notice one of the groups was targeted for mandatory sterilization and it wasn’t the white folks.
I up voted, this has no justification
Pretty sure Leif Eriksson landed in Vinland before Columbus landed in the Bahamas.
In other words, I’ll be formulating a proposal to Mette-Mink to reclaim what only can belong to the (once) glorious Denmark!
Jewish people lived next to muslim people in arab countries for a very long time but then ww2 happened and the dumbass americans decided that doing what the nazis wanted to do originally is a good idea so they just kinda said that the european jews should move to this random desert where a lot of middle eastern jews live. You wouldnt deport all the south american, african, asian, etc christians to europe just because of their religion.
Jewish people living in Palestine is no fig leaf to justify European genocidal colonialism.