Another great article from 404 Media highlighting the power that the tech giants have amassed over how how we use the internet.

This brings me, I think, to the elephant in the room, which is the fact that Google has its hands on quite literally every aspect of this entire saga as a vertically integrated adtech giant.

This extreme power over the adtech and online advertising ecosystem is one of the subjects of an FTC antitrust suit against Google.

  • ExLisper@linux.community
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    10 months ago

    To anyone using Chrome and complaining about Google having too much control: shut the fuck up. You’re part of the problem.

      • Substance_P@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I love Librewolf, I just can’t work for hours using a browser that has dark mode disabled in order to preserve its privacy features.

        • AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          10 months ago

          Because the dark mode that’s built into Firefox and other browsers sends requests to websites that can identify you. If you want dark mode on Librewolf, do as the devs recommend and get Dark Reader, as that’s clientside and doesn’t identify you, and works with pretty much every website, including ones that don’t offer a dark version.

          I use regular Firefox, and I have the default dark mode disabled and Dark Reader installed. I don’t need to ask permission from websites to use dark mode any more than I need to ask Google for permission to block their ads.

          • Substance_P@lemmy.world
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            10 months ago

            that’s great! Yeah I understand the privacy implications but had no idea about Dark Reader. That’s why I love this community for answers like this. I’ll look into it as I’d prefer to use Librewolf as my daily driver.

            • AphoticDev@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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              10 months ago

              Like I said, it doesn’t look good on every website, but for the vast majority it’s a really nice experience, especially if you are often online after dark. It’s definitely earned the high ratings it’s got, and it’s 100% getting downloaded anytime I use a new computer.

              Besides the enhanced privacy it gives you, there’s also the fact that it doesn’t require loading additional style sheets, so it saves you a very small amount of bandwidth and time.

          • FrameXX@discuss.tchncs.de
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            10 months ago

            sends requests to websites that can identify you

            What requests? I though that only information that the browser gives to website regarding dark theme is that your preferred-color-scheme is now dark.

        • zingo@lemmy.ca
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          10 months ago

          Well some sacrifices has to be done.

          I use an add on called “Dark background, white text” or something like that. Less bloated than Dark Reader.

          Has to be somewhat usable while privacy oriented.

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      10 months ago

      Imo this extends to chromium too. Google owns the source code and can pull it whenever they want. Sure, chromium browsers might be able to putter along for a little bit, but my understanding is that the reason why we’re now at Chrome/Chromium vs Firefox vs Safari is because Google shits out so many new “”“standards”“” and “features” that you need a large team to keep up. It’s supposedly why browsers like Opera switched to using chromium instead of trying to maintain their own source code.

      This is a feature, not a bug.

      • ours@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Handing over Google the Internet standards on a platter.

        FireFox is not only awesome but a true competitor rendering engine.

    • some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org
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      10 months ago

      This is one reason why I don’t want the EU to force Apple to allow other rendering engines. Whether you think using Apple’s rendering engine on iOS is bad or good, it’s basically the only thing keeping Google from having complete control of the market.

  • Immersive_Matthew@sh.itjust.works
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    10 months ago

    Google only has power as we the people give it to them but using their services. Same with Reddit’s power and such. Not the people here as we have unfortunately unplugged, but admittedly, all the decentralized services have significantly less content and variety of content. We need more people to join us, but they seem happy to support the centralized services they hate.

    • Cethin@lemmy.zip
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      10 months ago

      The problem with youtube in particular is there is no way to build an alternative that’s as good as YouTube (ignoring all the bad bits they’ve added). PeerTube is nice to have around, but it’s not as fast and doesn’t have all the content as youtube. There’s also Nebula, which is alright. It’s not free and doesn’t have as much content, but it’s usually a higher quality.

      • Jeffool @lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        You’re obviously right. But it’s funny to me; I find it easy to imagine a world where staying independent and hosting your own stuff was seen as cooler. Instead of YouTube and Google Buzz, we ran RSS clients akin to Outlook and Thunderbird. They torrent and seed media we’re subscribed to while we’re at work or class. It’s saved on a home server. We walk in and simply toss it up on our desktop or TV. (Or maybe a mobile client streams from your home server over the Internet or over your home Wi-Fi if you’re at home )

        And if you visited the website instead of YouTube’s recommendations, The creator just adds a few RSS feeds on the backend to pull thumbnails from, of other creators’ sites they enjoy.

        Crazy how easy it is to daydream though, when I’m not the one putting the work in.

        • richieadler@lemmy.myserv.one
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          10 months ago

          I find it easy to imagine a world where staying independent and hosting your own stuff was seen as cooler.

          Sadly, money trumps “cool” most of the time.

        • Littleborat@feddit.de
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          10 months ago

          RSS would have been it. Ask around how many people even get the concept of it.

          We have had it all but people chose the dumb version of it.

      • wewbull@feddit.uk
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        10 months ago

        There was a world before YouTube. It grew from humble beginnings. Granted it didn’t have an incumbent to fight off, but it had all the server issues, bandwidth issues and similar.

        The only thing that stops someone else doing it is the user base.

      • Venia Silente@lemm.ee
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        10 months ago

        The problem with youtube in particular is there is no way to build an alternative that’s as good as YouTube

        as good

        I mean, assuming that’s exactly what people wan, “exactly youtube but cheaper”, then yeah it’s an impossible and thankless task to even try something of that scale. Instead it’s better to think of building youtube alternatives that are focused on one or two parameters that allow organizational optimizations. For example, much of the issue that people complain about is the storage, but a YT-alt that dedicates to eg.: archivism of old TV shows, that scan at best at 480p or 360p, wouldn’t need to spend that much in storage compared to a service that is trying to serve 4K UHD 120fps Subwoofer Surround; that combined with the topical focus suddenly makes it much more scaleable and approachable.

        • ferralcat@monyet.cc
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          10 months ago

          I’m always a bit shocked the worlds governments don’t start offering free email/hosting to their citizens. It’d give them a cheap way to surveil that was “opt-in” (but would probably catch a lot of dumb people) and everyone would have a “verified” email for official stuff too. It seems like a good investment to me.

    • El Barto@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      I’m okay with the less amount of content. Frankly, I mindlessly spent hours scrolling through “content” on reddit, and feeling no satisfaction. At least the content here is more relevant.

      More people would mean more memes and rage bait. No thanks.

      • Littleborat@feddit.de
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        10 months ago

        You just need to curate your feed like anywhere else. Who can really stand the main page of reddit or yt or anything really?

        Reddit made it so hard to use on mobile that I only check it on the weekend on my pc.

        • El Barto@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          Yup, I used to do that. But then the admins took over some of my curated subs, e.g. programming subs, when the mods refuse to open them up. So now I don’t go to those anymore.

    • shrugal@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      The problem is the network effect. It’s hard to switch from YT if all your favorite channels and creators are there, but it’s also hard for them to switch if all the users are using YT. And because it’s many different people we cannot coordinate a simultaneous transition either.

    • GreenM@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      That’s why i wen FF+ Duckduck + ublock and instead of reddit > Lemmy But i have to admit that YouTube is harder to replace then reddit and I’ve tried many alternatives.

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    10 months ago

    I just got an email from YouTube, my premium price is going up by almost double…

    • malchior@aussie.zone
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      10 months ago

      Same. It is no longer worth it, I’ll be sad to lose my music streaming, but there are other pathways that some may consider unethical.

        • Final Remix@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          That’s getting harder though, at least in my experience. Circa 2010, it was music and shit everywhere. Now it’s slimmer pickin’s, it seems.

          • CrowAirbrush@lemm.ee
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            10 months ago

            I’ve tried torrents but those seemed to all be dead ends, i found another website that uses some backdoor from a streaming service and the file info is actually correct but you get songs 1 by 1. Which takes a lot of time.

          • Keith@lemm.ee
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            10 months ago

            If you just want YTM for free there’s beatbump on web and Innertune or ViMusic on android

      • malchior@aussie.zone
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        10 months ago

        If only there was a place to buy DRM free music in the file type I want for use in whatever device I want also for movies.

    • Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee
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      10 months ago

      If you subscribe to premium using an Indian IP address, for example, you’ll get it for like a buck a month

      • lemming741@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        I did that for a month from Argentina, then Visa stopped working. I started a personal invidious instance and haven’t looked back.

        • gohixo9650@discuss.tchncs.de
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          10 months ago

          a bit off topic but when you say personal instance where is it hosted? And if it is strictly personal, doesn’t google create the same profile for you which will be assigned in your IP if it is hosted in your house, or in your VPS’s IP if hosted elsewhere?

    • Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de
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      10 months ago

      YouTube Music is no longer optional. It’s now bundled into the basic features of Premium and Google uses that to justify the insane price hike. Their argument is that it’s cheaper than before for the dozen-or-so people that had subscribed to both YT Music and Premium. All others now “save” on the YT Music subscription, the fact that nobody saves anything by paying for a service they don’t need is completely lost on them. Just corporate greed and pushing the monopoly a bit further, nothing to see here.

  • atrielienz@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    The YouTube adblocker overlay and such doesn’t work if you’re in incognito mode. You’re welcome.

    • specfreq@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      I simply open up YouTube+Ublock in Firefox on my smartphone.

      I actually like the personalized video recommendations from being signed in sometimes, but I still don’t like my data being sold. I use both.

      • MataVatnik@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Same. Firefox +uBlock on mobile. The YouTube app actually kinda sucks. Never used it

  • mobilex1122@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    My solution is (and for quite a long time was) to use NewPipe on mobile and Invidious on pc.

  • EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de
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    10 months ago

    Adnauseam! Adguard for desktop loaded with anti AdBlock killer! Lifetime license available!

    Sorry I have tourette’s syndrome

  • originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com
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    10 months ago

    i jumped the google ecosystem a few years back seeing this coming…

    i hear a lot of ‘but i use googles x and googles y’. yep, and you will continue to have those chains on your wrists as long as you choose to have them there. everyone has the choice to start migrating to other email providers, other phone platforms, etc.

    im not saying its easy, or something that can happen quickly… but lamenting the fact youre in up to your neck is no reason to give up. baby steps. make bob wiley proud.

    • 👍Maximum Derek👍@discuss.tchncs.deOP
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      10 months ago

      I’ve ditched everything but android. Been thinking about swapping roms but not all the apps I need for work will works with MicroG. And going apple is, at best, a lateral move.

      • foreverunsure@pawb.social
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        10 months ago

        GrapheneOS has sandboxed Play Services which basically means they run just like a normal app on your device and you get to choose the permissions they get. My bank’s app works with it too (no GooglePay tho). It does require you to get a Google Pixel phone though, which might defeat the whole purpose for some.

    • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      10 months ago

      The only active google services I do use are

      • Android and Google Pixel (because fuck Apple lol)
      • Google Play Store (I sometimes use F-Droid)
      • YT

      I replaced my email with my very own domain
      I buy my own storage to host and backup at home.
      What I have from cloud storage is by chance of having Office365 (mainly because Outlook is so much superior for email management. I tried EM-client. It was worse).

  • Norgur@kbin.social
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    10 months ago

    As much as I’m against Google: why are the the bad guys in this specific instance? They are in many other instances, absolutely. But here, they dare to block a service that legitimately costs a ton of money from being used without them making anything in return. That’s not the usual evil corp BS they pull. That’s rather reasonable if you ask me. Let’s not exhaust ourselves in that and focus on the real Bullshit they try to pull like their web manifest ad nightmare!

    • djsoren19@yiffit.net
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      10 months ago

      A lot of people have become entitled to the idea of the “free internet.” In some cases, it’s understandable, like for social media where the platform is doing very little work and nearly all the value is coming from the users. I think especially in Youtube’s case, people are squinting and looking at it like a social media. They wonder why Youtube’s taking such a big cut when they think the content creators are the ones providing the value.

      The issue here is that the complexities of video hosting, especially at the speed and quality Youtube provides, requires a ludicrous amount of effort and money. Youtube is providing a platform that is nearly unthinkable, something I consider to rival the entire television broadcasting sphere. The idea that such a colossal undertaking could be achieved without requiring revenue generation is simply naïve, and it’s incredible to think that a free version is even offered at all. Nobody ever really thinks about that though, they just look at it as another platform like Facebook or Reddit, and think a lazy megacorp is stuffing their pockets for nothing.

      • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        10 months ago

        You can see how hard they optimized by watching a very old video you uploaded yourself.
        Exanple of mine:
        I uploaded 3 videos some time (2x 9 years and 1x 6 years) ago with about 1min of runtime each.
        They do not get clicked much.
        Timing it, it took Google about 3 seconds to view it the best available resolution.
        Only 3 seconds is insane if one remembers how long a drive needs to just spin up from standby. And that is not even with a cached video.

        Now I wanna see how long it would take a competitor to achieve the same performance.

        I remember some time ago when YT took about 10-15sec to do the same task. They heavily improved their performance. Even for low performance content.

        Sad that some are so entitled.

    • yukichigai@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      Because this isn’t just about “making anything in return” any more than neo-Nazis are booted from platforms “just for having different opinions.” More people are using adblockers on YouTube because YouTube isn’t simply displaying commercial advertisements, they’re pushing “ads” for scams, malware, and all manner of heinous and/or sketchy content. Even separate of that, the frequency of ads and the presence of minutes-long ads you need to manually skip have made watching content difficult and unpleasant, if not unworkable. Adblocker usage is as much about restoring functionality to the site as anything.

      All of these issues have been raised with YouTube, but rather than address the complaints by adjusting how ads are selected and served they’ve decided the only solution is for you to pay them monthly, not just a few bucks but as much as (or more than) the major video streaming services. All of this for content they do not make, at a price point far beyond what they need to be profitable. It’s greed for the sake of greed, pure and simple.

      • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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        10 months ago

        If they are so annoying, don’t watch at all? Go outside, read a book, watch Jellyfin/Plex.
        Plenty of activities to substitute YT time.

    • un_owen@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      That’s not the usual evil corp BS they pull.

      Yes it is. Why do you think they force you to pay for YT Music when all you want is an ad free experience? I tell you why: people will come to the realization that it is stupid to pay for two music streaming services at the same time, so they will cancel their Spotify subscription. This will make it extremely hard for other services to stay competitive. It’s no longer enough that their app is perhaps slightly better, or that they have the better algorithm, no one will be willing to pay the extra 11 € per month for just that. So eventually, these competing music streaming services will die (maybe with the exception of Apple Music and Amazon Music). Once YouTube has the monopoly on the music streaming market, they can raise the prices again. They are using one monopoly to build a second one. And a third one. And so on, until everything is owned by Google, Amazon, Meta, Apple, or Microsoft and no one is able to compete with anything anymore. And the worst part is, that Google doesn’t even deserve any of YouTube’s success. YouTube’s success comes from its creators. All that Google ever did is to provide some servers and some bandwith, which arguably is expensive, but it’s not really an achievement. They didn’t even invent YouTube, they just bought it, made it big, and now abuse it to conquer more and more markets.

    • originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com
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      10 months ago

      i agree, its about choice. no one should be complaining about what google is doing [with youtube].

      if we dont like it, we should choose a different product.

      • Talaraine@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        When a corporation is willing to lose billions of dollars to capture an audience, effectively locking out any competition, and then counters any possible avenue to blocking their monopolistic stance, your first statement shouldn’t be about choice, because there isn’t one.

          • Szymon@lemmy.ca
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            10 months ago

            So which free streaming service allowing for profit sharing on ad revenue which has essentially become the only name brand in the industry have you chosen to move to?

            Or is your choice that you have to go without something you want because you disagree with the one single service offering it? Oh by the way, that company got that way through anti competitive practices to make sure that only they were able to operate this type of service.

            • snooggums@kbin.social
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              10 months ago

              Nobody pays attention to anything beyond the current moment when it comes to shitty corporate behavior like this.

              Every large company that isn’t privately owned is going all in on this anticompetitive monopolistic bullshit. A few of the privately owned ones still care about customer good will, even if just for long term profitability. Anything on the stock market doesn’t do anything for the long haul except for undercutting the competition early on before they were close to a monopoly, like youtube did.

        • Norgur@kbin.social
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          10 months ago

          Yet, by AdBlocking them, you are doing fuck all against their “monopolistic stance”. You are strengthening their monopoly all the same. And to be clear: I don’t want to blame here. Block YouTube ads, I’m doing that too. I’m more irritated by how it’s somehow spun as evil that YouTube dares to want money for a service they provide.

          If Google had not shut down competition by outcompeting them, do you think those competitors would be free? If not, your argument is besides the point all together.

          • Zorque@kbin.social
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            10 months ago

            One can be the “bad guy” without being outright evil. Their advertising tactics are heinous and exploitative, and their revenue sharing with the people actually making their content is tricky to exploit without utilizing the same shitty practices Google uses.

            This is also about a relatively minor amount of users. Yes, most people on the fediverse are probably going to be running ad-blockers… but that’s an incredibly small amount of people. This whole thing is about squeezing a few extra ounces of blood from “their” stone. Not a righteous battle against a foul mass who are scandalously stealing from hard working Google employees.

            • Norgur@kbin.social
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              10 months ago

              As I said: I’m not saying that one has a moral obligation to watch the 1000000th stupid raid shadow legends ad. Google would try and exploit us for all we’re worth, so IDGAF about their revenue. It’s just that all those posts along the lines of “Google tries to earn money by me using their service,! The audacity!” Rub me the wrong way. There are plenty of examples here where people try to spin their use of adblockers into some white knight story and claim moral high ground for doing so. That is hypocrisy in my eyes and this hypocrisy is annoying me. Nothing wrong with “yeah Google, I’m going to take your shit just like you help yourself to mine on a regular basis, because fuck you”. Just… Let’s not try to make this some moral thing, alright?

              • Zorque@kbin.social
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                10 months ago

                So basically you feel icky? You have a moral problem with people who have moral problems?

                Cry me a fucking river. The problem isn’t that Google is some nefarious Snidely Whiplash character, cackling madly as they tie some helpless waif to some train tracks… theyre “just” a business, doing business things. The problem is, at their scale, it removes opportunity and mobility of any kind of competition. Any time they squeeze their rock, it has massive implications not just in the technical landscape, but also in peoples ability to control their own life, as it pertains to the ever-growing digital landscape.

                I’m sorry that all you can see is people who want free stuff… but that seems to be your own insecurities eating at you. And reflects your own motivations. Not anyone elses.

      • amio@kbin.social
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        10 months ago

        Yeah, why don’t the users just pick a better option in this monopoly.

    • Nougat@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      YouTube was originally free, and without video ads. It remained so for some time after Google bought it. They can operate YouTube without video ads at all.

  • RiQuY@lemm.ee
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    10 months ago

    Is there any real free alternative? And I mean free refered to freedom, I know PeerTube exists but finding a good/known instance to upload content knowing that the instance won’t go down is hard.

    EDIT: I found maker.tube and hardlimit, the first one looks promising.