The far-right and anti-Islam populist Geert Wilders is heading for a massive parliamentary election victory. It's one of the biggest political upsets in Dutch politics since World War II and one that is bound to send shockwaves through Europe.
I think though you are also getting a backlash throughout the world in that this white glove woke treatment of Islam that suggest they do not need to rein in the fringe extreme elements within their faith is acceptable is becoming unacceptable. That they are not collectively responsible for the actions of the those that take their faith too literal wears thin. It is akin to the pressures put on the Catholic religion that was expected to clean up their sins of which were far smaller in size. That was expected and maybe it should be expected that the group as a whole becomes responsible
The result is that we are starting to see majority of people begin to say you need to actively denounce and more so, take steps to remove those of your faith that engage in violent methods otherwise we will collectively group you together and effectively punish you. And while maybe this is a hard pill to swallow, that might be the only effective way to change human nature on a large scale.
It’s no different than Christianity, except they don’t believe Jesus was the son of God. The people following the religion are just as varied as Christians. Some people are fundamentalists, while others are extremely liberal, and consider themselves merely spiritual and call themselves christians.
It’s an interesting one this. My wife’s mum is Iranian and my brother in law is Pakistani and I’ve heard (so take this with a metric tonne of salt) that families that emmigrated from middle Eastern cultures are often much more strict that those who didn’t.
This is simply because the community in the country the emmigrated to is much smaller and more isolated so doesnt allow views to slowly shift as easily as in a large group where you can more easily find like minded people if there’s a point you don’t agree with.
But like I said, I’ve only heard this so maybe it’s bs, I’ve never visited either country myself so it’s literally just another’s opinion. But I found it interesting and it made me think a bit more about how hard it must be to feel like you belong in a country different than your origin.
Mild pressure is put on the catholic church as an organization (!) to stop actively aiding the still ongoing mass rape of children over multiple continents through their clergy.
That is not even close to the same as expecting all people of Muslim believe to denounce things that completely independent people do that just so happen to also be Muslim.
And don’t get me wrong, Islam might be even more stupid and archaic than Christianity, but your argument just doesn’t hold water at all.
I would go so far as to say that it is likely that this very argument was conceived as a racist fig leaf to have some reasonable sounding argument to not like brown people.
Not that this is necessarily your motivation, but you just publicly repeated it.
Being concerned about Muslim extremeism != racism. You’re the reason people like geert are winning. People are tired of bad faith arguments with the left in which common sense is called racism.
Common sense is not boiling hundreds of years worth of geopolitics into a single talking point and acting like you’ve somehow solved all problems in an area if we just somehow did this one thing.
In fact, the extremism you are talking about is largely due to foreign countries destabilizing regions around the world that happen to be majority Muslim countries.
You’d respond the same way if a handful of countries showed up at your doorstep, set up military bases, bombed your neighbors, friends, and family, and then toppled your government causing wide spread famine, inflation, and collapse of your economy.
Honestly, how could you not end up hating someone for doing that?
Nope, just wondering how you still can’t see that an entire generation of people become radicalized when you carpet bomb their nation and topple their government.
No I am not and right wing nuts blaming the left for even more extreme right wing nuts is just an obvious lie.
The empirically proven truth is though, that people like Wilders, LePen, Farage, Trump, Höcke etc. are successful because their inflammatory racist rhetoric gets echoed by stupid “centrists” that care more about fighting the left than the right.
People like you.
But I understand that it feels much better for you to blame lefty people that you don’t like anyway.
Says the apologist repeating some of the rhetoric Wilders and his voters use to try and convince non-islamophobes to vote and behave like islamophobes.
…created by, come on, say it with me: the fucking VVD who a couple of hours ago “washed their hands of it.”
It’s an urban / rural divide the VVD exploited for years, privatizing everything so that your town has one bus that maybe runs once an hour, of course you’re pissed. And probably are ok with blaming people with different color skin for it instead of the conservatives who did this to you.
It’s not even mildly surprising, to anyone paying attention and given free media attention given to what were once fringe views.
I think though you are also getting a backlash throughout the world in that this white glove woke treatment of Islam that suggest they do not need to rein in the fringe extreme elements within their faith is acceptable is becoming unacceptable. That they are not collectively responsible for the actions of the those that take their faith too literal wears thin. It is akin to the pressures put on the Catholic religion that was expected to clean up their sins of which were far smaller in size. That was expected and maybe it should be expected that the group as a whole becomes responsible
The result is that we are starting to see majority of people begin to say you need to actively denounce and more so, take steps to remove those of your faith that engage in violent methods otherwise we will collectively group you together and effectively punish you. And while maybe this is a hard pill to swallow, that might be the only effective way to change human nature on a large scale.
Oh hey, look everybody another person over generalizing that thinks an entire group of people is responsible for what a few people do.
It’s not a few…
The majority simply hold views that aren’t compatible with western modern views. Being gay is a sin, women’s rights aren’t valued, etc.
An excellent example of this is Draw Muhammad day.
Here’s some fun reading.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_people_and_Islam
It’s no different than Christianity, except they don’t believe Jesus was the son of God. The people following the religion are just as varied as Christians. Some people are fundamentalists, while others are extremely liberal, and consider themselves merely spiritual and call themselves christians.
I think Christianity is the same backwards blight on humanity as Islam. They’re equal in their hatred of the ‘others’
It’s an interesting one this. My wife’s mum is Iranian and my brother in law is Pakistani and I’ve heard (so take this with a metric tonne of salt) that families that emmigrated from middle Eastern cultures are often much more strict that those who didn’t.
This is simply because the community in the country the emmigrated to is much smaller and more isolated so doesnt allow views to slowly shift as easily as in a large group where you can more easily find like minded people if there’s a point you don’t agree with.
But like I said, I’ve only heard this so maybe it’s bs, I’ve never visited either country myself so it’s literally just another’s opinion. But I found it interesting and it made me think a bit more about how hard it must be to feel like you belong in a country different than your origin.
The majority of people in the Netherlands aren’t religious, though. The same goes for some other European countries.
I wasn’t really making a statement on the article so much as the specific comment I responded to.
Bullshit Apples and bullshit Oranges.
Mild pressure is put on the catholic church as an organization (!) to stop actively aiding the still ongoing mass rape of children over multiple continents through their clergy.
That is not even close to the same as expecting all people of Muslim believe to denounce things that completely independent people do that just so happen to also be Muslim.
And don’t get me wrong, Islam might be even more stupid and archaic than Christianity, but your argument just doesn’t hold water at all.
I would go so far as to say that it is likely that this very argument was conceived as a racist fig leaf to have some reasonable sounding argument to not like brown people.
Not that this is necessarily your motivation, but you just publicly repeated it.
Being concerned about Muslim extremeism != racism. You’re the reason people like geert are winning. People are tired of bad faith arguments with the left in which common sense is called racism.
Common sense is not boiling hundreds of years worth of geopolitics into a single talking point and acting like you’ve somehow solved all problems in an area if we just somehow did this one thing.
In fact, the extremism you are talking about is largely due to foreign countries destabilizing regions around the world that happen to be majority Muslim countries.
You’d respond the same way if a handful of countries showed up at your doorstep, set up military bases, bombed your neighbors, friends, and family, and then toppled your government causing wide spread famine, inflation, and collapse of your economy.
Honestly, how could you not end up hating someone for doing that?
Bombing them will work this time for sure!
The lack of self awareness is hilarious. You are literally proving my point. “Everyone who doesn’t agree with my extremely ideology is a racist”
You just like have absolutely zero critical thinking skills don’t you…
And you have the reading comprehension of a pre-schooler don’t you…
Nope, just wondering how you still can’t see that an entire generation of people become radicalized when you carpet bomb their nation and topple their government.
No I am not and right wing nuts blaming the left for even more extreme right wing nuts is just an obvious lie.
The empirically proven truth is though, that people like Wilders, LePen, Farage, Trump, Höcke etc. are successful because their inflammatory racist rhetoric gets echoed by stupid “centrists” that care more about fighting the left than the right.
People like you.
But I understand that it feels much better for you to blame lefty people that you don’t like anyway.
Says the apologist repeating some of the rhetoric Wilders and his voters use to try and convince non-islamophobes to vote and behave like islamophobes.
Almost nobody thinks this win is the result of fringe extreme elements within Islam. It has more to do with lack of housing, inflation, etc.
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It doesn’t matter if they do, as long as voters believe they do.
…created by, come on, say it with me: the fucking VVD who a couple of hours ago “washed their hands of it.”
It’s an urban / rural divide the VVD exploited for years, privatizing everything so that your town has one bus that maybe runs once an hour, of course you’re pissed. And probably are ok with blaming people with different color skin for it instead of the conservatives who did this to you.