There’s a bit more on Mastodon then Lemmy - https://docs.joinmastodon.org/user/moving/#migration has the details. But not being able to move posts is a big limitation. And even the functionality that’s implemented has some unpleasant surprises – see https://erinkissane.com/notes-from-a-mastodon-migration

You asked me to help you find the examples and I said no and suggested a technique that might work. It’s an answer, it’s just one you didn’t like. When you told me that you weren’t able to apply the technique successfully, I said

Oh well. It sounds like you’ve got some work to do. The revised version of the article has some antiracism resources, so stay tuned.

Yes, I answered your question, you just didn’t like my answer.

If you can’t find them, then (like many people) that’s a sign you’re used to an environment where anti-Blackness is normalized. So, imagine a Black person reading this thread who’s been targeted by racism on the fediverse. What comments would they think are dismissive of Black people?

It doesn’t make any assumptions about your ethnicity. If you are in fact a Black person who’s been targeted by racism on the fediverse but isn’t seeing it in that thread, it’s still a useful suggestion to step outside yourself and try to reading it as somebody else would,

The revised version of 4 things white people can do to start making the fediverse less toxic for Black people (DRAFT!) will have (or maybe link off to) a list of examples on Lemmy – that’s why I started this thread. But, you don’t have to wait! There are multiple examples in this thread and the thread I linked to in the OP.

And yes, there are tools. I’ll have more links in the revised version, but one good place to start is Ijeoma Oluo’s Welcome To The Anti-Racism Movement — Here’s What You’ve Missed

I answered. And there are also some good examples of anti-Blackness in the comments here.

I’m not saying to pour through millions of posts, this one and the one I linked to have plenty of examples.

I was agreeing with you that moderation can make a big difference in how many people see the racist posts (and defederating from instances that are known sources of racism). Still, even when moderators remove posts, people still see them – people in this thread talked about posts using “playing the race card”, inflammatory memes, and other stuff that moderators removed. So I don’t see it as moving the bar from the question of whether people have seen racism. But I certainly agree that racism that moderators don’t address is a bigger problem!

Yeah. It’s endemic in society, so there’s no reason that specific social networks are magically exempt from it.

Whatever works! lol

These are all good points (and not having anything like Mastodon’s followers-only posts removes another way to hide in obscurity). Moderators certainly got involved in some of the cross-posts of the earlier thread, at least a dozen comments were removed on beehaw and a couple people got banned from the awful.systems thread.

On the other hand, downvoting can also be used as a weapon to try to bury discussions of racism (this thread btw is at -17, the previous one is at -70).

Also somebody here mentions that “There’s currently only 1 user that I’ve noticed that keeps bringing race up.” (hiii!!!). A culture where people don’t talk about race means that whiteness is normalized and unexamined. And quite a few of the comments in this thread (saying I’m the racist, analogizing me to a “Karen”, calling me a fool) and the previous ones (“is this a joke?”, “haha”, “Lol, how is race relevant? Obv rage bait shitpost”, the one analogizing me to Hitler) are all consistent with an environment where reactions to somebody bringing up race are hostile. Almost nobody is challenging these comments, in fact they’ve got plenty of upvotes.

The previous post that I linked to is now down to -70! Discussions about racism often make people very uncomfortable. Thanks for all your responses in the thread that came from this, one of the commenters blocked me so I can’t respond directly to them, but I greatly appreciate it!

How about you look at this an other threads for the examples that others are describing?

Good point, thanks. It’s great that mods are blocking sources of racism, although also means that people who don’t see can wind up thinking that there isn’t any racism.

Thanks! Yeah, one of the dynamics is that when people quickly report and mods take the posts down quickly, most people don’t see them … which is good, but also means that it’s easy to believe that there isn’t any racism.

Thanks, in the revised version I’ll clarify the “Post less”. And, I also have suggestions about amplifying Black voices similar to your last paragraph.

Thanks much for the detailed response! And thanks @TheRtRevKaiser@beehaw.org for the detailed response as well.

Thanks for making the effort to research it … there are some great examples in this thread and some of the cross-posts (although some were so egregious that the mods took them down). Also, did you follow the links at the beginning of the article? They’re talking about Mastodon (I’ll include some examples from Lemmy in the revised version) but give an idea o the overall dyamics. In any case, I’ll put in a big more about the problem in the revised draft.

That’s a great point, can I quote you on having seen it on Lemmy quite a few times?

Thanks very much for the feedback, I really appreciate the time you put into it and. you bring up a lot of very good points. For “start making” vs “making” and “less toxic” vs “more welcoming”, I’m intentionally choosing the weaker forms to emphasize that these are only the very first steps. I know it’s a harder sell this way but it’s important to set expectations. It’s a good point about how some allies saying :“listen to me!” take space from marginalized groups, I kind of feel like I’ve got that covered by betweent the combination of #1 and #2 but maybe it’s worth making more explicit.

Agreed that the discussion of repeated questions could be more explicit. (It’s not necessarily sealioning, although sometimes it is; often it’s the same one or two reasonable questions from a huge number of people.). But that’s not actually the key point I’m trying to make. Instead, to relates to this:

the way that this point is currently worded, it sounds fallacious (inversion of the burden of the proof)

Many people react that way but think about it a little more. It’s a fact. Mutliuple Black people have proven it repeatedly. There is no further burden of proof, it’s only whiteness’ denial that makes it seem like an open question and entitlement that makes it seem like Black people should produce more evidence. The annoyance factor is a big deal too, but it’s secondary.

And, good catch on the typo, thanks!

Thanks very much for wading in, @alyaza@beehaw.org - and thanks again to all the mods for taking action here. Any thread about racism in the fediverse becomes evidence of racism in the fediverse, sigh.

More positively, though, I got some very helpful feedback here from @Kwakigra@beehaw.org, @SweetCitrusBuzz@beehaw.org and @kalanggam@beehaw.org … which is appreciated, and testimony to the fact that clearly a lot of people on Beehaw do get it!