Sotomayor: If the president decides that his rival is a corrupt person and he orders the military to assasinate him, is that within his official acts to which he has immunity?
“That could well be an official act,” Trump lawyer John Sauer says
If I’m Biden, as soon as this is okayed, Trump is dead. Right? I mean, fuck.
Obviously, why wouldn’t he? This is potentially the dumbest argument ever heard in a court room and we’re all supposed to sit here and entertain its plausibility. What a joke.
we’re all supposed to sit here and entertain its plausibility.
We’re all here because more than one of these judges is entertaining its plausibility. Listening to some of the questions coming from a couple of these judges, there is a very real possibility that they actually declare Trump at least partially immune, leading to the lower courts having to re-litigate the issues again (which would delay Trump’s trials by years), or outright giving him enough immunity to make his current cases go away.
It’s important to note that this would include the state cases. If Trump were to return to office, he could in theory pardon himself and make the federal cases go away but can’t do anything about the state ones. If the SC were to rule he’s immune, the state courts can’t touch him either.
Honestly, I think the judges are just trying to figure out how they can rule narrowly enough to make sure Trump walks away scot-free while also ensuring that Biden and other future presidents don’t get the same treatment.
4 justices have to vote to hear a case at the Supreme Court. I don’t understand why they’d ever choose to.
Trump was not president for the crimes in NY or the retention of documents AFTER he was president. Of course it’ll be delayed and litigated, but “president is immune” does not make trumps problems go away unless they go “president is immune for the rest of their lives” which is even more insane.
I’m sure they’ll frame it in a way where this only applies to Trump, and no former or future presidents will have that ability.
Same as Bush v Gore
Our consideration is limited to the present circumstances
They’ll stick that in their opinion and say that this case isn’t binding on future cases therefore it doesn’t set precedent.
That’s a paradox. The only precedent it set was that a decision could withhold setting a precedent.
I know that’s what I would do.
If the Supreme Court were to greenlight this, it becomes the only logical choice in terms of preservation of the self and the state…
My opponent will use this power for great evil, so I must use it first to circumvent that.
I’m not even American so I can’t be president, I just want to the fucking Cheeto dead and his family.
Trump? He’s just the start. I’m cleaning House, and Senate!
And SCotUS.
You know as well as I do that we’ll sit on that high horse of morality, sniffing our own farts, while we get sniped right the fuck off that horse by a Republican who has no issues whatsoever with abusing that power.
If this is okayed then the next government will presumably be the last. So if that’s not Biden then he is comfortable handing over the torch to whomever wins. That doesn’t seem like a particularly nice choice to have to make.
Biden doesn’t have the balls for that…Trump, unfortunetely does (or he’s just too fucking stupid to realize the ramifications of it).
She should have asked about assassinating “corrupt” Supreme Court justices, in case some of her colleagues need to connect the dots.
The argument has been that the president can be charged, but only after they’re impeached by the House and convicted by the Senate. And in the meantime, they’re still president. So theoretically they could continue to have House members assassinated until there isn’t enough votes to impeach. And theoretically they could also assassinate Senators until there aren’t enough votes to convict. And I really don’t understand why no one’s making that argument to the Court, because that’s exactly where the “they can kill anyone who disagrees with me because they’re obviously a political rival” argument leads.
And I really don’t understand why no one’s making that argument to the Court
The argument has been made from the beginning. It’s the whole “Seal Team 6” argument. They may not be saying it outright, but I think everybody understands that everybody on both sides of the argument knows that the argument would also cover a President ordering the assassination of rivals en masse.
Project 2025 anyone…
Rooting out political enemies from within government being a core part of it?
No? Anyone? Bueller?
Biden should just send Seal Team 6 to whatever courthouse Trump’s hush money trial is at and tell them to sit on the steps. If anyone asks why they’re there, just saying “Waiting for the Supreme Court ruling”. Maybe park another team on the Supreme Court steps with a sign that says “Waiting for Clarence Thomas.”
Biden would not be committing an illegal act. He’d be ordering the teams to sit on the steps and wait. Further orders would only come after the Supreme Court ruling, so Biden would be covered by the very same Presidential immunity that Trump just fought for.
He pretty much has to, or else Trump will imprison him an execute him in the next 12 months.
I mean shit, if I knew there was a fifty percent chance my neighbor would kidnap and murder me in the next year… I’d be making contingency plans.
Unfortunately that’s not how Democrats work. For good or for bad they stick to morality (except when it comes to Israel for God knows what reason) and they’ll take the “high road” that just so happens to lead off a cliff, but it’s the high road so they need to take it even if it means their certain death.
We’re a joke, doomed to die for the sake of the moral high ground that we have no right to even assume we have (see previous Isreal comment.)
Edit: but also, from the article, this isn’t the actual desire. They already got what they wanted and that was a delay.
I sort of agree, but at some point, Biden has to understand his own self, and his family, and all the colleagues he has worked with in his career are at risk. Trump is seriously escalating a dangerous game that only SCOTUS or Biden can put an end to. Politics is eventually violence, and Biden must know that.
Trump is hiring expensive, smart people, to argue at the last peaceful authority in the country, that he will regain the power of judge jury and executioner. This is fucking chilling.
This should help left leaning voters reconsider gun restriction laws since most of them are enforced in blue areas, while red areas are all allowed to have essentially entire armories.
If you live in New York or California, you can’t find a gun store within 100 miles of where you live that can only sell extremely restrictive features that would give the most battle hardened Navy Seal issues hitting targets, but in Idaho and Texas there’s a gun store on every fucking corner selling easy to shoot highly ergonomic firearms that allow morbidly obese boomers to effortlessly hit the dick off a fly at 1000 meters.
Begging to differ, I’m sitting on my toilet in California and a quick Google shows there’s 3 gun stores within 5 miles of me. I’d have to pass the legitimate restrictions (which I easily could) and one of them looks very upscale and expensive, but physical access is not a problem at all.
Fair point, but I’m sure you are only able to be sold a very specific set of authorized firearms, that when compared to what similar stores in other states happen to also sell; will reveal the differences are orders of magnitude.
Case in point: a Cali compliant AR-15 is a horrible thing to shoot (I own this one).
Biden actually has control of the arsenal.
Unless you are a leftist, committed to dying in a revolution, there’s no comparison to Biden’s position. Clinton and Obama? Maybe
Of what arsenal?
He’s the commander in chief. Can a local socialist militia stops the tanks?
While funny to imagine…please let’s not. I got a kid to raise, I don’t want to raise one in a civil war. I know for sure some of the “SEAL team 6” members wouldn’t very much like being turned on government officials, especially if their politics align.
Bonus points if their orders include the phrase “stand back and stand by”.
My gut tells me Trump’s lawyers don’t actually want the president to be immune. They already won by having the Supreme Court take up this absurd case allowing his other trial to be delayed until this issue is resolved. Likely after he’s president.
Lol, that’s exactly what the article says. Literally the last three lines summing it all up:
Despite Trump’s public insistence that he deserves widespread immunity, his own legal team seems prepared to have their claims rejected by the highest court in the land. Rolling Stone reported on Wednesday that many of the former president’s lawyers and political advisers are bearish on their odds of success — but it’s not all doom and gloom.
“We already pulled off the heist,” one source close to Trump said, adding that regardless of what the court decides, they’ve already managed to severely stall the DOJ’s election interference case.
It’s just bizarre to listen to…
Kagan: If a president sells nuclear secrets to a foreign adversary, is that immune?
Sauer: If it’s structured as an official act, he would have to be impeached and convicted first.
It’s the only argument he can make. If he makes any other argument, his position on complete and total immunity is dead on the spot, as he would be conceding that the President isn’t completely and totally immune after all.
Any concession, no matter how ridiculous the example, would invalidate his entire case immediately and he knows it. And if you ever hear him say “He would have to be impeached and convicted first”, you’ll know that he damn well knows how ridiculous his own arguments sound.
Judge: If President Trump were to run around the White House naked with a rubber glove on his head yelling ‘Hi, I’m a squid! Nuke Montana so I can take out my rival octopus and his herd of glitter cows!’, would that be an official act he would have immunity under?
Sauer: If it’s structured as an official act, he would have to be impeached and convicted first.
Doesn’t matter what scenario you put there. Sauer’s options are to repeat that line or essentially lose the case.
The very next question should have been “And if he has 1/2 of the House of Representatives killed at the same time?”
why only half? isn’t it more efficient to kill all members of all other branches along with all identified successors?
Sauer: If it’s structured as an official act, he would have to be impeached and convicted first.
Alright you goddamn fascist enabler, explain how the fuck breaking the law either by stealing nuclear secrets or assassinating political opponents could be “structured as an official act.” Explain the exact case law and legal mechanisms that explicitly give the office of the President this authority. And then, while you’re exhaling the CO2 that some poor plant is gonna have to clean up, explain how private citizen Donald Trump shouldn’t be prosecuted for committing these acts while he wasn’t in office.
You fucking jackass.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
In another hypothetical, Justice Elena Kagan asked if the president would be immune from prosecution if he sold nuclear secrets to a foreign adversary.
In February, D.C.’s Federal Court of Appeals summarily rejected the arguments made by Trump’s attorneys — including that the president would be protected from prosecution even if he had his political opponents assassinated.
The three-judge panel unanimously determined that Trump is not shielded from prosecution for potential crimes committed in office related to the subversion of the 2020 election.
Trump has long been ranting about the matter in his public statements and on social media, effectively making the immunity issue a plank of his presidential campaign.
Despite Trump’s public insistence that he deserves widespread immunity, his own legal team seems prepared to have their claims rejected by the highest court in the land.
“We already pulled off the heist,” one source close to Trump said, adding that regardless of what the court decides, they’ve already managed to severely stall the DOJ’s election interference case.
The original article contains 806 words, the summary contains 168 words. Saved 79%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Feel like theyre trying to setup as a given that “official presidential acts” are immune from prosecution.
Like “alright assassinating a political rival is a step too far but now we’re discussing a much more tame action as president.”
No go back a step, there is no law granting the president immunity from the law. It doesnt matter what is or isnt an “official act”
You know. If I was an asshole puppeteer who held trump’s strings….
I’d get myself a new puppet, then make this argument, maybe then do a false flag and have the trump-puppet executed in a manner that looks like Biden had it done….
Something to think about.
Are these people really this fucking stupid? If the sitting president has total immunity and having political rivals killed is an “offical” act, then what’s stopping Biden from having Trump executed?
The right question to ask is whether the president can decide to assassinate a supreme court justice. Then it becomes plenty clear to the supreme court fucks how obviously insane the rationale is.
Right now, it’s looking like the Supreme Court is going to say “that’s not allowed” but do it in a way that prevents Trump from being tried before the election. This lets them say “we’re good and ethical” while protecting Trump from the consequences of his criminality:
The Supreme Court appeared poised to reject Donald Trump’s sweeping claim that he is immune from prosecution on charges of trying to subvert the 2020 election, but in a way that is likely to significantly delay his stalled election-interference trial in D.C.
