Now let’s not pretend that the Democratic Party has any love at all for these protestors. Let’s not pretend that the prevailing sentiment in this community isn’t that these protestors should shut up and stop criticizing US support for Netanyahu’s genocide because they’re worried it makes Biden look bad.
This whole thing of “you need to lie about the facts to make one side look way better than they are or else you are campaigning for the other side” thing needs to go. It just needs to go. It isn’t fooling anyone, and it just makes everyone doing it come across as idiots. Own your stance, be honest about what we can all see, and try to explain why you feel like you do from base reality. I know you’ve been told it makes you a traitor or whatever, but it simply doesn’t. It makes you come across as a genuine person, and it makes the things you say have more weight.
My agenda is to see more honest discussions. It is not a hidden agenda. I am very open about it. I, and many other people, honestly believe that Joe is doing a horrific job. I also honestly believe that Trump would do a horrific job. I am disgusted by the fact that nobody who could potentially make it into the White House has shown anything but complete and utter contempt for the innocent lives in Gaza.
I absolutely refuse to pretend that Biden is great for Gaza in some pathetic attempt to trick idiots who somehow haven’t paid attention into thinking that Biden isn’t floating in am Olympic sized pool of children’s blood. I’m not saying Trump will do any better, and I’m not saying I will vote for Trump. All I am saying is that we will all be better off if vocal people like yourself were to at least try to have honest dialogs. No strawman, no hidden agenda, just plain, honest discussion. The thing that has offended you so deeply can be summed up in a single word. Honesty.
So willing to make claims, but way more willing to run away when called to stand up for them. If you start trying to make honest claims, then this wouldn’t happen, instead you would be glad to back them up.
Oh I know. Trust me, I don’t engage with these people with any illusions. There’s no arguing with the agitprop element here. The point of responding at all is just to identify them to the general public.
See this is what drives me crazy though. I always see people write these big critiques of Biden, often even implying he’s basically the same as Trump, but they never go so far as to say “but pull the lever for Biden anyway.“ It’s why there is such a distaste for the endless critiques on lemmy of Biden by many of us. Because there is kind of this implication that you either shouldn’t vote or you should at least not vote for Biden. Some folks like you, and I’m not saying you do this, get so angry about anybody who says “vote for Biden anyway.” They act like we are unable to critique him. But really a lot of us are just coming from a place of pragmatism, and we get worried because the critiques need to close with at least something like “but do not vote Trump. The election is at our doorstep. Vote Biden.”
Real change won’t occur within the next few months. We need to stop Trump.
If you’re just going to start being flippant and unproductive when I’m trying to have a real discussion with you then we can just stop here. Have a good rest of your weekend.
Sorry. I’m coming to this with the understanding that delay means that many fewer living Palestinians and that much closer to Netanyahu completing his genocide. I consider this situation to be too time-sensitive for incrementalism, and I have a tendency to regard calls for patience in the face of this to be callous.
I also firmly believe that Biden is harming his own chances of defeating Trump by supporting Netanyahu’s genocide, and that the future of democracy in the US rests on his willingness to cease his support.
If Biden does not change in the next few months, I fear things will get much worse and may never improve for the human species.
I understand that but right now what do you want me to do about it? Really and truly. I’ve written my reps, I’ve stood with protestors, I’ve been very vocal about my feelings re: Israel’s horrific retaliation. We are discussing an election in November between Trump and Biden, right? So what do I do with that?
Trump will make it objectively worse for Palestinians. So I will vote Biden.
I understand that but right now what do you want me to do about it?
I don’t know.
Really and truly. I’ve written my reps, I’ve stood with protestors, I’ve been very vocal about my feelings re: Israel’s horrific retaliation
I get that. I live in Texas. Writing to my rep and senators results in a form letter thanking me for agreeing with them (contrary to the content of my letter), followed by fundraising mailers.
We are discussing an election in November between Trump and Biden, right? So what do I do with that?
Only thing to do is vote for Biden and take a really long shower afterwards.
Trump will make it objectively worse for Palestinians. So I will vote Biden.
Likewise. I fear that absent change on Biden’s part, he will lose anyway.
The prevailing attitude on Lemmy seems to be that Israel should be wiped from the face of the earth. Comments that don’t support the protesters are quite rare.
Of course Trump is worse.
Now let’s not pretend that the Democratic Party has any love at all for these protestors. Let’s not pretend that the prevailing sentiment in this community isn’t that these protestors should shut up and stop criticizing US support for Netanyahu’s genocide because they’re worried it makes Biden look bad.
And let’s not pretend that the US isn’t a two-party system.
Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Your choices are Trump or Biden.
And I’m voting for Biden.
No sarcasm whatsoever - thank you.
Then why are you campaigning for Trump?
One can dislike Biden without liking Trump.
Question: Does this heightened level of nuance transfer onto a FPTP voting system?
Answer: absolutely not.
Your comment should read “One can dislike Biden without demanding voters elect a bigger dipshit”…
But it doesn’t.
This whole thing of “you need to lie about the facts to make one side look way better than they are or else you are campaigning for the other side” thing needs to go. It just needs to go. It isn’t fooling anyone, and it just makes everyone doing it come across as idiots. Own your stance, be honest about what we can all see, and try to explain why you feel like you do from base reality. I know you’ve been told it makes you a traitor or whatever, but it simply doesn’t. It makes you come across as a genuine person, and it makes the things you say have more weight.
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My agenda is to see more honest discussions. It is not a hidden agenda. I am very open about it. I, and many other people, honestly believe that Joe is doing a horrific job. I also honestly believe that Trump would do a horrific job. I am disgusted by the fact that nobody who could potentially make it into the White House has shown anything but complete and utter contempt for the innocent lives in Gaza.
I absolutely refuse to pretend that Biden is great for Gaza in some pathetic attempt to trick idiots who somehow haven’t paid attention into thinking that Biden isn’t floating in am Olympic sized pool of children’s blood. I’m not saying Trump will do any better, and I’m not saying I will vote for Trump. All I am saying is that we will all be better off if vocal people like yourself were to at least try to have honest dialogs. No strawman, no hidden agenda, just plain, honest discussion. The thing that has offended you so deeply can be summed up in a single word. Honesty.
Do tell. What criticisms do you have of the Democratic Party?
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So willing to make claims, but way more willing to run away when called to stand up for them. If you start trying to make honest claims, then this wouldn’t happen, instead you would be glad to back them up.
Edit: typo
You could just say you have no criticism after all.
That is not at all what’s happening. The world is much less black and white than you think.
I’m not campaigning for Trump.
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Removed, civility.
Now compare your fanfic to what actually happened.
I guess you’re conveniently forgetting about yesterday where you made an absolute fool of yourself and got caught lying.
Btw I’m STILL waiting on that answer.
Just reviewed those threads. It’s no where near as clear cut as you describe here. Your comment comes off pretty creepy, kinda stalkery
Dude followed me into c/tenforward tryin’ to start shit.
Or I suppose you could change the subject instead, yeah.
Keep lowering that bar, champ.
Oh I know. Trust me, I don’t engage with these people with any illusions. There’s no arguing with the agitprop element here. The point of responding at all is just to identify them to the general public.
Biden thinks the protestors have a First Amendment right to speak out. Repubs want them attacked by the National Guard and/or deported to a war zone.
I did not mention Biden’s opinion regarding the protestors.
Yes, that’s why it’s important someone did mention it.
Yes, it’s vitally important to change the subject and argue against something I didn’t say.
You guys never have the courage to say what you mean, just hint at it. Say what you mean.
Thank god I have centrists to tell me that I mean tons of shit I don’t say.
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What do you want us to do come November about it?
Vote for Biden, of course. There’s no better choice, to my utter dismay.
See this is what drives me crazy though. I always see people write these big critiques of Biden, often even implying he’s basically the same as Trump, but they never go so far as to say “but pull the lever for Biden anyway.“ It’s why there is such a distaste for the endless critiques on lemmy of Biden by many of us. Because there is kind of this implication that you either shouldn’t vote or you should at least not vote for Biden. Some folks like you, and I’m not saying you do this, get so angry about anybody who says “vote for Biden anyway.” They act like we are unable to critique him. But really a lot of us are just coming from a place of pragmatism, and we get worried because the critiques need to close with at least something like “but do not vote Trump. The election is at our doorstep. Vote Biden.”
Real change won’t occur within the next few months. We need to stop Trump.
Congratulations.
If you’re just going to start being flippant and unproductive when I’m trying to have a real discussion with you then we can just stop here. Have a good rest of your weekend.
Sorry. I’m coming to this with the understanding that delay means that many fewer living Palestinians and that much closer to Netanyahu completing his genocide. I consider this situation to be too time-sensitive for incrementalism, and I have a tendency to regard calls for patience in the face of this to be callous.
I also firmly believe that Biden is harming his own chances of defeating Trump by supporting Netanyahu’s genocide, and that the future of democracy in the US rests on his willingness to cease his support.
If Biden does not change in the next few months, I fear things will get much worse and may never improve for the human species.
I understand that but right now what do you want me to do about it? Really and truly. I’ve written my reps, I’ve stood with protestors, I’ve been very vocal about my feelings re: Israel’s horrific retaliation. We are discussing an election in November between Trump and Biden, right? So what do I do with that?
Trump will make it objectively worse for Palestinians. So I will vote Biden.
I don’t know.
I get that. I live in Texas. Writing to my rep and senators results in a form letter thanking me for agreeing with them (contrary to the content of my letter), followed by fundraising mailers.
Only thing to do is vote for Biden and take a really long shower afterwards.
Likewise. I fear that absent change on Biden’s part, he will lose anyway.
Let’s pretend about that world…
As trump gasses these folks…
But it’s someone else gassing people… it’s not the same republicans that did it back in the day with the patriots act. No that was different…
So what are you going to do about it?
Vote for Biden in November and criticize his support for genocide until he stops. I’ve said this more than a few times already.
The prevailing attitude on Lemmy seems to be that Israel should be wiped from the face of the earth. Comments that don’t support the protesters are quite rare.