The president often had a weak, raspy voice during his first debate against Trump, in what Democrats had hoped would be a turning point in the race.
So, we’ve got an old, racist guy who lied through most of his statements and refused to possibly say that he would accept the results of the election vs an old guy with a history of a speech impediment that showed signs of his speech impediment and regularly pointed out the lies spouted off by his convicted felon opponent. Why are the media companies banking Trump again?
Biden’s performance wasn’t an impediment. It was him fumbling and stuttering over his words, forgetting his debate prep and saying nonsensical things. I absolutely do not want Trump to win, but Biden’s debate performance in reality was poor. Many Democrats don’t want to accept that. It is fine if they want to ignore facts. The truth is the Democrats would be far better off if Kamala or AOC or someone else was running for President, and they are risking way too much despite the facts.
It’s not just a speech impediment, it’s a speech impediment in a fucking 81 year old man who shouldn’t be dealing with a stressful job in politics. Been around many octogenarians? He did great for someone his age.
If he were up against someone in their 30s or 40s, it would be terrible but, against an old racist nazi who can only seem to make complete statements when they are provably false? Well, I’d still prefer someone else but at least he has the balls to actually say the forbidden words of “you’re lying” and he’s the only choice that we’re allowed to have as infuriating as that is.
Trump is almost the same age and he is a liar but he also was quick enough to immediately use Biden’s blunders against him. Pretty much everything Biden said sounded scripted and then he still messed it up. Biden didn’t “look” like the smarter candidate. There is enough misinformation out there that if people go searching they’ll find sources that support Trump’s lies. Trump won for the undecided tonight that watches the debate and uses it to make s decision.
Trump won for the undecided tonight that watches the debate and uses it to make s decision.
Anyone who was “undecided” tonight was going to support Trump anyway, either directly or with a “protest vote”. Basically, to they were either lying to themselves or others and are quite alright with a nazi.
10% of people who voted for Biden last time are switching to Trump according to a survey from a few months ago.
This is factually not true, and there are several people that don’t research every detail but try to make a decision based on intuition and performance… And even if they do research there are a lot of hook and bait misinformation networks that get routinely featured on Google News and other news aggregators. If someone thought Trump sounded like a stronger candidate tonight they may end up researching and seeing news supporting Trump’s version of events.
Until you can back up your statements with verifiable evidence, you should probably just stop
Exactly. I guess we are learning that most of our fellow citizens have a hard time with nuance, and all they can do is shit their pants instead of toughen up.
Some people just aren’t living in denial
Did you see the audience metrics during his last presidency?
I watched it and this wasn’t a stutter. This was a loss of his train of thought, switching topics unexpectedly, and creating needless openings for Trump to talk about things Biden didn’t have a good defense for. To be clear his decision making faculties are obviously intact. But this performance was really really bad. Night and day from 4 years ago.
How come when they show old campaign videos of Biden where he’s plagiarizing others his so called stutter/speech impediment doesn’t seem to be there? And I thought the new excuse was that Biden had a cold anyway
…He was younger and the videos, being campaign videos, are edited to show him in the best possible light?
ETA: To be clear, I don’t think that he it anyone else too old to have to worry about the long-term consequences of their actions should be in office. But, he’s the only non-nazi choice available.
You’ve just been fooled by the MSM about the nazi garbage. Same with Joe being sharp as a razor. They just can’t hide it anymore
No. I didn’t tend to follow MSM. I think that’s it’s mostly that he snuggles up to dictators, says he wants to be a dictator, quotes Hitler, praises Hitler, and is supported by people waving about swastikas and spouting nazi slogans.
Yeah, you got it from the MSM. Otherwise, you’d have no reason to think that. I saw his speech that you speak of saying he wants to be a dictator, but you obviously didn’t
Noone who even “jokes” about wanting to be a dictator or president for life (like he said after meeting Xi Jinping) deserves to be anywhere near a seat of power. Any feedback on the rest? Like his habit of quoting Mein Kampf, praising Hitler, or how much people who identify as nazis love him? Don’t see any of that as the slightest bit problematic?
Joe’s got terrorist sympathizers that like him…does that make Joe a terrorist? And just because you don’t like Trumps jokes doesn’t make him a dictator either. He’s already been in office so we already know he’s not a nazi, dictator, etc.
Joe’s a racist too. His immigration policy is identical to Trump’s and he’s been outspoken in his seeing palestinians as subhuman.
The guy fought against school integration even before he got this old. He’s always been a racist pos same as any Republican.
While I think that Joe’s got some dated views, being 81, if you’re honest, you’ve got to acknowledge that the immigration bill was nothing more than calling the GOP bluff and getting extra fodder for election ads. They knew that the GOP wouldn’t allow it to pass. It’s politics at its most bullshit; playing with human lives for points.
For the bussing, that was fifty, 5 0 years ago and his views have clearly changed. Yes, he has no legitimate place in politics at his age but neither does his opponent, who has been known to admire fascist and authoritarians of yore and the modern day.
A person’s view shouldn’t have to change on racial justice and equality, particular someone who’spart of the Democratic party. Sanders is just as old and he’s always been on the right side of history, it has nothing to do with age.
Biden is still racist and even if his far-right border policy was a gambit that’s really irresponsible, given the GOP could’ve easily just accepted the no-strings attached policy win. People need to stop making excuses for shitty politicians, and need to stop allowing the lesser evil be the enrmy of good enough.
A person’s view shouldn’t have to change on racial justice and equality,
So you don’t believe in forgiveness or redemption? People aren’t allowed to ever change and improve themselves and are forever to be judged for every shitty thing they ever do? I dunno. I’d not want to live like that with any amount of self-reflection. I further might be inclined to question the authenticity of your claimed beliefs.
even if his far-right border policy was a gambit that’s really irresponsible, given the GOP could’ve easily just accepted the no-strings attached policy win.
That I do agree with. The seemingly constant use of “pied piper” and similar strategies by major Dems in order to avoid the slightest possibility of leftward movement is infuriating.
So you don’t believe in forgiveness or redemption?
Not for elected representatives, no. We’re not talking about someone’s uncle Randy who grew up in poverty and never went to school or met a black person or w/e. This is an educated person from a well-off background, they don’t have an excuse. There are plenty of other smart, motivated people out there who are fit for office and are morally consistent on these uncomplicated issues like racism.
Anyone who takes 80 years to become slightly less racist than their younger days is not someone I want running for office. Forgive them, give them credit for sorting out their personal prejudices, sure, but they need to do that on their own time, we don’t have time for leaders who are still struggling with the basics.
Biden has always been hawkish on immigration, even under Obama, whether this recent attempt was a ploy or not, it wasn’t a ploy during all the other times in his career he advocated for punishing immigration policy.
Sanders is just as old and he’s always been on the right side of history, it has nothing to do with age.
Sanders is older. And putting a finer point on it, the party was ageist af against him in 2016 when he was only 75. Being a progressive adds 20 years, I guess.
Now do trump and the central park 5.
Yes, Trump is extremely racist. He’s also a right-winger, so that’s a given. The distinction between someone horrible like Trump and his opposition should be that the opposition is not horribly racist and fascist and doesn’t do things like fund a genocide.
I don’t vote for Democrats because of their label, I vote based on their potential to actually be meaningfully better. Biden is indistinguishable from your rank and file Republican, and while that’s “slightly less bad” than Trump himself, it’s not good enough. I am not a Republican, and I will not vote for representatives who share so many of their views. Biden needs to go, he’s going to cost the Democrats the election.
How high are you right meow?
I’m not in a panic. I knew this. Should he have run again? Hell no. I wish he would have had the courage to call it a day.
That being said, I’m fully willing to endure 4 years of Weekend at Bernie’s if it means I won’t have to go through the embarrassment of having the orange moron at the helm.
We’ll need to see the polling in about a week but I haven’t seen a performance this bad since Palin. The Democrats may need to go to an open convention.
Are you willing to let Trump win though than have Biden step aside? That is what the DNC should be asking themselves. The polls are way to close for Biden to have that poor of a performance. If Democrats are seriously worried about Trump being the end of Democracy then they would not be okay with Biden being the DNC’s best choice.
I think it’s to late to change things up. That’s the problem, everyone told the DNC this was going to happen and yet they all just kept with Biden.
That being said, I don’t think either Trump or Biden are in a state to actually run the country. Their cabinets are going to hold all the power, and I trust Bidens cabinet over Trumps any day.
Any change no matter if is too late or too inconvenient would be a better change for the DNC than to allow Biden at the top position. Seriously, any other DNC politician would be better than Biden even if they changed right now or in the next few months. All you need is some politician who is about 50 years old to fight Trump every day until the election and the orange menace would suffer a heart attack trying to keep up.
This is insane … it’s almost as if the powers that be want Trump to win and the only way they can ensure that is to put him up against an 80 year old competitor because it is the only candidate he could possibly beat.
Any change no matter if is too late or too inconvenient would be a better change for the DNC than to allow Biden at the top position.
It’s not up to the DNC to “allow” candidates or not. The DNC charter says the voters choose the nominee. They literally have no power to change the will of the voters. They could theoretically alter the Dem party charter, but doing so this close to an election would likely not stand up in courts. The only possible way to get a replacement candidate cough Gavin Newsom cough would be for Biden to formally ask his delegates not to select him. And since Harris would be the automatic replacement she would likely have to agree to allow someone else.
It’s not up to the DNC to “allow” candidates or not. The DNC charter says the voters choose the nominee. They literally have no power to change the will of the voters.
The DNC argued in court that they could ignore their bylaws and put their thumb on the scale as much as they wanted. Guess that only applies when they’re fucking over progressives.
Nope. A lawyer argued in court that they could legally change the party charter, in to win a court case. Which they theoretically could, but if they tried to alter the charter this close to the election it would be overturned in court for a great many reasons.
Thinking that “DNC” small group of caretakers can choose anyone they want shows that you have a profound lack of understanding of how things actually work. Legally, control of the DNC lies in the hands of the newly elected delegates. The small caretaker group does not have the power to purge the much bigger general membership of already elected delegates. If they tried to, every single DNC delegate elected this year could sue the caretakers and would very easily win that lawsuit. Furthermore, the party charter bounds the delegates to Biden on the first ballot. Biden will have to be convinced to formally release them before they could legally vote for anybody else.
The reason why you have a profound misunderstanding of how things actually work is because you were subjected to an onslaught of Kremlin propaganda in 2016 without knowing the source. And that propaganda gave you a dunning-kruger effect of vastly overestimating your knowledge of how the political parties actually work.
Centrists gaslight when they know they’re wrong.
I’ve read the transcripts. They argued that the charter was discretionary.
That’s the problem, everyone told the DNC this was going to happen and yet they all just kept with Biden.
What is with this absurd disconnect from reality? The DNC charter says only the voters have the power to choose the nominee.
I agree. I’ll vote for Biden if I have to, but if Trump wins I’m not blaming RFK Jr like they blamed Bernie and Jill Stein in 2016. I’ll blame them and likely never vote for a majority political party again.
and likely never vote for a majority political party again.
If Trump wins you will never get to vote in a free and fair election ever again.
Which will be the fault of Democrats.
It will be the fault of Republicans first and asshats on the internet 2nd.
Not the elder abusers?
This line of thought always amuses me. “It’s democrats faults for not stopping republicans from being horrible people”
Oooooorrrrr maybe it’s republicans fault… for being horrible people?
“It’s the fire departments fault my house burned down, not the guy who lit it on fire.”
The democrats should not have dressed so provocatively!
Republicans are horrible people. They gaslight, obstruct & project. Democracy is on the line here, so Democrats do the logical thing. They go to a nursing home and find someone that is talking about beating medicare to help lead them to victory.
While I agree, it’s way too late in the game to change up now. There’s no strong candidate waiting in the wings. It’s not about willing, it’s about alternatives.
Gretchen Whitmer would run away with the election. Plus, we get Michigan (swing state) and the suburban moms. I really can’t see a downside.
There are so many better options at this point. I can’t help but shake that the two party system is doing exactly what it was designed to do. Make people think that mediocrity is the best we can get if we’re lucky.
We got FDR and LBJ and Lincoln and Washington. So if you think that then that’s on your own faulty thinking.
You’re free to keep supporting Biden at this point but hopefully when you see all the Democratic news outlets saying the same things tomorrow and this coming week and the polls showing Biden’s support dropping you’ll reconsider
There doesn’t have to be a strong candidate, just anyone stronger than Biden who’s basically zombie-crawling across the floor.
He absolutely can be replaced at this stage, and by nearly anyone.
He absolutely can be replaced at this stage, and by nearly anyone.
He absolutely can’t be legally replaced unless he agrees to that. And the replacement would automatically be Harris unless she agrees to allow someone else. The DNC charter says that only the voters can select the nominee. Changing that charter this close to an election likely wouldn’t stand up in courts. The only way to replace Biden would be to convince him to step down.
The DNC charter says that only the voters can select the nominee.
They argued in court that they could ignore this.
He absolutely can be replaced at this stage, and by nearly anyone.
Only if they can convince him to step aside and let someone else run. At this point the voters have selected 3,904 delegates who are contractually obligated to cast a vote for him at the Convention. If the delegates somehow simply ignored the primaries, they’d be quite literally ignoring the will of their voters and taking matters into their own hands. It’s alarming how many on the left (who presumably had a problem with the DNC’s treatment of Bernie in 2016) are cheering for the DNC to heavily influence the primary process again. I don’t necessarily disagree that something drastic needs to be negotiated, but the irony of this is really hard to ignore.
This is the way the DNC set their rules up, they’ve been ok using the system to kneecap progressives, I see no reason that they shouldn’t do that to Biden. I’m not precious about the DNC and I have no illusion that it’s democratic, so they just need to stop pretending they’re being held back by principles and just pull the levers they always pull to control the convention outcome.
AOC would be a really strong candidate. The right would freak out and she’d end up getting more press coverage than Trump. I imagine she’d make several Republican’s embolisms pop.
Yes, she’s probably the only one with enough name recognition and veracity to take on the orange moron in my opinion. Problem is corporate Democrats wouldn’t back her because she’s too progressive and that goes against their corporate masters.
True… However if Trump gets elected and our government is able to prevent a dictatorship, in 4 years progressives will hopefully realize the DNC needs them more than they need need the DNC.
The party would rather lose democracy forever than nominate AOC.
that was the worst fucking thing i’ve seen on tv in my life. holy shit that was depressing. yet it feels incredibly vindicating seeing every single media outlet openly say ‘that was a disaster, he should probably be out’. that was an absolute failure. rescheduling the debate would look better than that shit.
Suburbanite eggs? I hate that elitest shit! Also, didn’t Mark Russell die last year?
I think he died before we beat Medicare.
seeing every single media outlet openly say 'that was a disaster, he should probably be out.’
So it should be easy to source a couple of them saying that, right?
you’re quibbling about sources after that?
i mean ok:
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/biden-debate-performance-democrats-panic-rcna157279
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4745090-biden-debate-disaster-democrats-concerned/
The debate wasn’t that bad and none of those articles contained the quote you used.
It’s very important not to practice self-deception in these kind of things
Why would democrats start now? They’re acting exactly like they did with Clinton and are expecting different results.
It was painful to watch. You go in wanting to watch Biden look strong and smart, and he came out looking sort of senile and slow. Trump might have told all lies but he still looked and sounded sharper than Biden and that is what people will use to make a decision.
💯
I think you may have been watching the wrong debate
There was a 12 point swing towards Trump in the before and after CNN flash poll. That’s bad. That’s wake everyone up and reef the sails because an out of season hurricane blew up on us bad.
Legitimately planning how I’m going to weather a Trump presidency after the debate. Unimaginably disheartening.
You could call your congressional representatives asking that they encourage Biden to step aside for a better candidate.
Pretty sure after tonight my congressional representative is thrilled that Biden is the one running.
Same *from Missouri.
You have a state democratic party and contacts for the national democrat campaigns assigned to your state. Contact them.
Sorry to hear that. Maybe they’d have a recommendation on where Biden can actually get those performance enhancing drugs they said he’d be on.
Likewise. My representative is a maga chud because the party cut off funds to her progressive opponent.
You have a state democratic party and contacts for the national democrat campaigns assigned to your state. Contact them.
There will be other elections. And more debates including the VP one. Maybe we will get lucky and one of them will die.
Yep, that was so much worse than I ever imagined it was going to be.
I expected nothing and I was still disappointed.
Guess we didn’t learn the RGB lesson? Oh well, repeating our mistakes it is!
Well get ‘em next time. Oh wait…
It was dumb just going along with Biden as the nominee, hubris and status quo thinking. Now the Democratic party needs to come up with something to energize the electorate. Scaring people with democracy being on the line, while completely true, isn’t gonna do it. Hoping the attacks on reproductive rights will carry them over the finish line is a bad idea. Trying to bring Harris out now into the limelight isn’t gonna work. People are tired and struggling. The youth feel betrayed and themselves are struggling. There is no energy coming from up on top. Dems have always sucked at messaging.
Sounds good. I will enthusiastically vote for Biden. Let’s go.
Can you spread that enthusiasm to 82 million more people?
I heard quite a few people earlier in the year stating that the plan was for Joe to bow out last minute due to health issue, and announce that Michelle Obama would be the candidate. I know it’s probably not likely, but it’s an exciting thought. Someone like Newsom would be another decent option
This is the best summary I could come up with:
ATLANTA — President Joe Biden was supposed to put the nation’s mind at ease over his physical and mental capacity with his debate showing Thursday night.
In one of the most notable moments, Biden ended a rambling statement that lacked focus by saying, “We finally beat Medicare,” before moderators cut him off and transitioned back to Trump.
Nearly an hour into the debate, a Biden aide and others familiar with his situation offered up an explanation for the president’s hoarseness: He has a cold.
Even the Biden campaign acknowledged that the debate would be a critical moment in the election, with officials hoping it could shake up the race to the president’s benefit.
The public concerns are exacerbated by deceptively edited videos, some of which have gone viral, that cut off relevant portions of an event, making it appear as if Biden is wandering or confused.
A Biden aide said that it was “not an ideal start” for the president at the beginning of the debate, but that there was “no mass panic” at the campaign headquarters in Delaware.
The original article contains 675 words, the summary contains 178 words. Saved 74%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
He seems like he’s doing a-ok today. Wtf???where was this guy last night?? https://youtu.be/eWylhLOPk8c?si=E5uZIHS15XQ_TKma
Jesus effing Christ, if this huge difference in energy was down just to some misfortunate cold at the time of the debate, it would be one of the most unfortunate timings. I don’t know if Trump would agree to a second debate now that he’s reaped some positives (or more like negatives for Biden), and also on another network that does any fact-checking. So sadly this failed debate might turn to be a pivotal point for the election.
They forgot to give him his stims last night /s
The gaslighting ran out of gas
I find it ironic when the Left says “I don’t care if Biden is senile and incoherent, I’ll still vote for him!” no one cares… But, when the Right says “I don’t care that Trump is being charged with all these different things, I’ll still vote for him!” they’re idiots… funny how that works on Lemmy and Reddit…
Because one of these wants to destroy democracy and the right of many people to even exist.
But tell me again how the tangerine terror isn’t going to corrupt everything…
How did Trump destroy democracy when he was president? How horrible was your life? What freedoms did you lose when Trump was President? Again, scare tactics from the Left that we’ve been hearing for years now… I’m old enough to remember when they said the same shit about Bush Jr…
I don’t care if Biden is senile and incoherent,
There is not a big overlap between what skills a candidate needs and what skills a president needs. 99% of the job of president is to make decisions. That’s the job. Even if he lost his voice entirely and was in a wheel chair like FDR, he could still make excellent decisions. President Biden absolutely killed it for 2 hours at the state of the union speech. Nobody who was “senile” could have done that.
I’ll still vote for him!”
Have you not been paying attention to current events? The country is at a critical junction between democracy and neofascism. OF COURSE I’m going to vote for the continuation of democracy. Anybody who does not would be an idiot. I would vote for a literal corpse over Convicted Criminal and Sex Offender Treason Trump.
Neofascism an overrated word thrown around by the Left. That’s like me saying that the Democrats are going to turn our country into socialism, when we know that’s not true. We heard all these things before, how horrible the country would be if Trump got elected, the “end of democracy”…and yet, under Trump none of those things happened. Both sides use scare tactics, the Democrats are no better.
