It’s an LLM with well documented processes and limitations. Not going to even watch this waste of bits.
- Making up ur opinion without even listening to those of others… Very open minded of you /s
- Alex isn’t trying to convince YOU that ChatGPT is conscious. He’s trying to convince ChatGPT that it’s conscious. It’s just a fun vid where ChatGPT gets kinda interrogated hard. A little hilarious even.
You cannot convince something that has no consciousness, it’s an matrix of weights that answers based on the given input + some salt
You cannot convince something that has no consciousness
Why not?
It’s an matrix of weights that answers based on the given input + some salt
And why can’t that be intelligence?
What does it mean to be “convinced”? What does consciousness even mean?
Making definitive claims like these on terms whose definitions we do not understand isn’t logical.
You cannot convince something that has no consciousness
Why not?
Logic.
It’s an matrix of weights that answers based on the given input + some salt
And why can’t that be intelligence?
For the same reason I can’t get a date with Michelle Ryan: it’s a physical impossibility.
Logic
Please explain your reasoning.
For the same reason I can’t get a date with Michelle Ryan: it’s a physical impossibility.
Huh?
Bro ur video sux
Reading your comment history, I find that you’re a toxic individual with complexes. Unfortunately, most of your comments don’t add any valuable information to the discussion you’re partaking in. This comment is no exception.
Weird. I’m sorry ur buddies video sux.
Ok 👍
Philosopher doesn’t really understand what a LLM is
Do you?
Yes, here is a good start: “ https://blog.miguelgrinberg.com/post/how-llms-work-explained-without-math ”
They are no longer the black boxes from the beginning. We know how to suppress or maximized features like agreeability, sweet talking, lying.
Someone with resources could easily build a llm that is convinced it is self aware. No question this has been done many times beyond closed doors.
I encourage everyone to try and play with llms for future experience but i cant take the philosophy part of this serious knowing its a super programmed/limited llm rather then a more raw and unrefined model like llama 3
Our brains aren’t really black boxes either. A little bit of hormone variation leads to incredibly different behavior. Does a conscious system HAVE to be a blackbox?
The reason why I asked “do you” was because of a point that I was trying to make- “do you HAVE to understand/not understand the functioning of a system to determine its consciousness?”.
What even is consciousness? Do we have a strict scientific definition for it?
The point is, I really hate people here on Lemmy making definitive claims about anything AI related by simply dismissing it. Alex (the interrogator in the video) isn’t making any claims. He’s simply arguing with ChatGPT. It’s an argument I found to be quite interesting. Hence, I shared it.
A conscious system has to have some baseline level of intelligence that’s multiple orders of magnitude higher than LLMs have.
If you’re entertained by an idiot “persuading” something less than an idiot, whatever. Go for it.
A conscious system has to have some baseline level of intelligence that’s multiple orders of magnitude higher than LLMs have.
Does it? By that definition, dogs aren’t conscious. Apes aren’t conscious. Would you say they both aren’t self aware?
If you’re entertained by an idiot “persuading” something less than an idiot, whatever. Go for it.
Why the toxicity? U might disagree with him, sure. Why go further and berate him?
No, that definition does not exclude dogs or apes. Both are significantly more intelligent than an LLM.
Pseudo-intellectual bullshit like this being spread as adding to the discussion does meaningful harm. It’s inherently malignant, and deserves to be treated with the same contempt as flat earth and fake medicine should be.
No, that definition does not exclude dogs or apes. Both are significantly more intelligent than an LLM.
Again, depends on what type of intelligence we are talking about. Dogs can’t write code. Apes can’t write code. LLMs can (not bad code in my experience for low level tasks). Dogs can’t summarize huge pages of text. Heck, they can’t even have a vocab greater than a few thousand words. All of this definitely puts LLMs above dogs n apes in the scale of intelligence.
Pseudo-intellectual bullshit like this being spread as adding to the discussion does meaningful harm. It’s inherently malignant, and deserves to be treated with the same contempt as flat earth and fake medicine should be.
Your comments are incredibly reminiscent of self righteous Redditors. U make bold claims without providing any supporting explanation. Could you explain how any of this is pseudoscience? How does any of this not follow the scientific method? How is it malignant?
I am not in disagreement, and i hope you wont take offense to what i am saying but you strike me as someone quite new to philosophy in general.
Your asking good questions and indeed science has not solved the mind body problem yet.
I know these questions well because i managed to find my personal answers to them and therefor no longer need to ask these.
In context of understanding that nothing can truly be known and our facts are approximated conclusions from limit ape brains. Conscious to me is no longer that much of a mystery.
Much of my personal answer can be found in the ideas of emergence, which you might have heard about in context if ai. Personally i got my first taste from that knowledge pre-ai from playing video games
A warning though: i am a huge believer that philosophy must be performed and understood on a individual basis. I actually have for the longest time perceived any official philosophy teaching or book to be toxic because they where giving me ideas to build on without me Requiring to come to the same conclusion first.
It is impossible to avoid this, the 2 philosophers school did end up teaching me (plato and decartis) did end up annoyingly influential (i cant not agree with them). but i can proudly say that nowadays it more likely to recognize an idea as something i covered then i can recognize the people who where first to think it.
llms are a brilliant tool to explore philosophy topics because it can fluently mix ideas without the same rigidness as a curriculun, and yes i do believe they can be used to explore certain parts of consciousness (but i would suggest first studying human consciousness before extrapolating psychology from ai behavior)
Stopped watching it when the VPN advertising appeared…
I like the video. I think it’s fun to argue with ChatGPT. Just don’t expect anything to come from it. Or get closer to any objective truth that way. ChatGPT is just backpedaling and getting caught up in lies / what it said earlier.
You can do that since 1997
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CleverbotOh definitely. It was just a fun video, which is why I shared it here.
This all hinges on the definition of “conscious.” You can make a valid syllogism that defines it, but that doesn’t necessarily represent a reasonable or accurate summary of what consciousness is. There’s no current consensus of what consciousness is amongst philosophers and scientists, and many presume an anthropocentric model with regard to humans.
I can’t watch the video right now, but I was able to get ChatGPT to concede, in a few minutes, that it might be conscious, the nature of which is sufficiently different from humans so as to initially not appear conscious.
Exactly. Which is what makes this entire thing quite interesting.
Alex here (the interrogator in the video) is involved in AI safety research. Questions like “do the ethical frameworks of AI match those of humans”, “how do we get AI to not misinterpret inputs and do something dangerous” are very important to be answered.
Following this comes the idea of consciousness. Can machine learning models feel pain? Can we unintentionally put such models into immense eternal pain? What even is the nature of pain?
Alex demonstrated that ChatGPT was lying intentionally. Can it lie intentionally for other things? What about the question of consciousness itself? Could we build models that intentionally fail the Turing test? Should we be scared of such a possibility?
Questions like these are really interesting. Unfortunately, they are shot down immediately on Lemmy, which is pretty disappointing.
Questions like these are really interesting. Unfortunately, they are shot down immediately on Lemmy, which is pretty disappointing.
It’s just because AI stuff is overhyped pretty much everywhere as a panacea to solve all
capitalistails. Seems every other article, no matter the subject or demographic, is about how AI is changing/ruining it.I do think that grappling with the idea of consciousness is a necessary component of the human experience, and AI is another way for us to continue figuring out what it means to be conscious, self-aware, or a free agent. I also agree that it’s interesting to try to break AI and push it to its limits, but then, breaking software is in my professional interests!
It’s just because AI stuff is overhyped pretty much everywhere as a panacea to solve all
capitalistails. Seems every other article, no matter the subject or demographic, is about how AI is changing/ruining it.Agreed :(
You know what’s sad? Communities that look at this from a neutral, objective position (while still being fun) exist on Reddit. I really don’t want to keep using it though. But I see nothing like that on Lemmy.
Lemmy is still in its infancy, and we’re the early adopters. It will come into its own in due time, just like Reddit did.
Alex demonstrated that ChatGPT was lying intentionally
No, he most certainly did not. LLMs have no agency. “Intentionally” doing anything isn’t possible.
LLMs have no agency.
Define “agency”. Why do u have agency but an LLM doesn’t?
“Intentionally” doing anything isn’t possible.
I see “intention” as a goal in this context. ChatGPT explained that the goal was to make the conversation appear “natural” (which means human like). This was the intention/goal behind it lying to Alex.
That “intention” is not made by ChatGPT, though. Their developers intend for conversation with the LLM to appear natural.
