The Ezzedine Al-Qassam Brigades takes responsibility for the heroic Jaffa operation carried out by the fighters from the [occupied West Bank] city of Hebron
Heroic operation? Shooting up a tram? Fuck off. This is not resistance, it’s wanton murder. Random people in public transit are not legitimate targets.
The fanatic stupidity on display here is astounding. But what else to expect? Fanatic stupidity festers in occupation, dehumanization, and genocide.
Meanwhile Israel bombed and killed 90 civilians on the same day, including an orphanage
The Apartheid needs to end for all this violence to end, none of these civilians deserve any of this.
Yeah and?
Israel invaded their country and is committing genocide. It should come to no one’s surprise that Israel fucks around and finds out during a war they started.
Israel killing civilians does not excuse Hama’s killing civilians.
This isn’t a hard concept to understand, but the anti-Israel folks here don’t just hate the IDF anymore, they hate all Israelis…
It’s sickening to hear people celebrate this kind of terrorism…
This wasn’t an act of war, it was an act of terrorism. They shot passengers on a train. All casualties were civilian.
Exactly! This is why I say Israel has a right to defend itself while Hamas should not be allowed to exist.
Though recent events (like Israel’s pager attack) have made this argument much weaker…
Eh, Israel, Hamas, and Hezbollah all have the right to exist, and to defend themselves. But we have to define that pretty strictly.
Carpet-bombing Gaza isn’t defense.
Slaughtering music festival attendees is not defense.
Indiscriminate bomb planting and destination is not defense.
Shooting up a train station is not defense.
Bombing hospitals and aid trucks is not defense.
I draw the line at deliberately or recklessly killing civilians.
I otherwise agree with all your points.
The issue with Hamas existing is due to its founding charter, see https://www.adl.org/resources/article/hamas-its-own-words for details on this but a brief summary is that it does not permit Israel to exist, period. There’s no theoretical deal or goal to reach for the both of them to existing side by side in peace.
Hezbollah has similar issues.
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For anyone wondering why the mods removed this for “incivility”, the original comment said:
Fuck hamas, fuck hezbollah, fuck Iran, fuck netanyahu.
What part of that is in civil? Or they mad about the bibi part?
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Israel bombs civilians : OMG!
Hamas bombs civilians: GOOD.
Jesus Lemmy
Yeah, how dare people treat a genocidal state and a people resisting genocide to different standards!!!1!
Just to clarify, you endorse randomly slaughtering Israeli civilians? Because that’s what this attack was.
No more than you support Israel randomly slaughtering Palestinians. Because that’s exactly what they’re doing and have been doing for the last year.
I don’t support Israel, asshole. I support peace. If you endorse terrorism, you are diametrically opposed to peace.
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Genocidal state? Are we talking about America?
Just wondering, when do you think this war started?
a war they started.
There are chances the outcome would be different if hamas released hostages, or didn’t attack Israel on October 7th. Those things were not smart. It didn’t serve any good purpose. A smarter thing would have been to prepare for such an attack from Israel by building defenses to protect civilians at the very least.
No there are not, this has been ongoing for decades and decades. Things would not have magically improved, it would have continued to be a slow death sentence whilst the world ignored it.
What Hamas did, no matter how tragic, has done more to bring light and international support to the plight of the Palestinian peoples and exposed Israel as the monster it is than anything else ever has.
What Hamas did had a totally unsurprising result, as distressing as that is, that inevitably resulted in, and continues to result in, unacceptable civilian suffering. Moreover, even though Israel has slow walked towards a regressive ethnofascist state since at least the Rabin’s assassination, the October attack straight up merced whatever dwindling progressive peace activist movements on the Israeli side that were still continuing the struggle.
One can be anti-Zionist and pro-basic human decency without romanticizing a violent religious fundamentalist organization that has at this point done almost nothing but harm to the interests and well-being of the people whom it purports to be protecting.
That didn’t worth it in my opinion. The level of international support is nowhere enough. And again, they could build defenses to decrease the number of victims.
Also the premise of “Israel is a monster” sentiment is hugely weakened by the monstrosity of the October attack itself.
Gaza is an open air prison. The ICJ concluded that it still was occupied since Israel retreated from it militarily as Israel still controlled all Land and Sea borders and destroyed the airport. Israel limited all sorts of goods going into Gaza well before October 7. They blocked construction material, telecommunications, limited medical and food supplies… The goal always was to slowly deteriorate the living conditions in Gaza so more people would leave, allowing Israel to occupy and annex again.
Hamas had and has very limited resources, which is why they fight in this way. And the world was quite happy to look away at Israel illegally occupying, annexing, killing civillians when it feels like in the Westbank and at demonstrations, running torture camps and taking tens of thousands of Palestinians hostage through “administrative detention” without any charge, without any due process, without even access to lawyers.
Gaza population was steadily increasing for all these years. This doesn’t bode well with the “prison” sentiment in my opinion. They had institutions. They could teach their own population. Their actions could be more logical. Instead it seems they’ve been spreading terrorist propaganda (literally pushing their children to become merciless terrorists) and spending resources on building offensive tech instead of defenses. I can not justify actions of Israel (though I can understand why the ground operation was started) but there is no way I can agree that actions of hamas had any logical ground.
No it’s not. More than one side can be monstrous in a conflict. “Yeah well but they did X so it’s okay that we did Y” is bible level reasoning aka no reasoning and pretty much what is causing the whole thing anyway.
More than one side can be monstrous in a conflict.
I agree, which is why I don’t support any monstrous regimes 🤷
You don’t have to pick a side, it’s a moral trap and being super loud about having an opinion doesn’t stop the bloodshed or justify any of it.
The moral trap: Do I be anti-genocide or not?
I didn’t mean to say anything that Israel did was okay. But a lot of it is understandable, e.g. the ground operation was very well expected by everyone when it became clear the hostages are not getting released. No matter how you look at it, Gaza was not ready.
And if we consider the October attack itself, only some of it is understandable (“they couldn’t bear with oppression any longer” sentiment, which itself is problematic at best).
This is probably the only way left for them to have any form of resistance. Since the international community have largely failed them and with Daddy Yankee and the war machine in Israel’s corner there is no chance of conventional war even if they had the numbers.
These attacks create a culture of fear in everyday Israelis but if sustained it could possibly cause them to put pressure on their gov for a ceasefire and force Bibi out. Who knows, the whole situation is just tragic and has gone on for decades.
Maybe some day our species will realize the futility of war.
Resistance.
They killed women and children. Your support for that has been noted.
Its a statement not support. They are resisting Israeli occupation. I’m not cheering for anyone to die and I don’t agree with it. In the same vain indiscriminate bombing is wrong too and has killed thousands of innocents.
To quote the article
At least 41,689 people have been killed and 96,625 have been injured in Israel’s assault on Gaza, according to Palestinian authorities. At least 1,139 people were killed in the Hamas-led attacks, according to an Al Jazeera tally based on Israeli statistics, and around 250 others were seized as hostages.
The death toll clearly skews to one side in a major way. What people here are saying is not that we support violence in any case, we do not, we are saying you can’t be surprised when they fight back when you look at the numbers. Israel could have entered on the ground and fought enemy combatants with a much lower civilian death toll. They targeted civilians first.
There are no good guys in this conflict.
Oh no… anyhow how about this weather?
