Hey, good for him. I believe firmly in reformation, or reflection and changing your views and it sounds to me like he thought about it and came around, so good.
I think he was trying to get a buzz for his stand-up by going anti-woke. Then those people didn’t show up for him because they are still laughing at Rob Schneider.
After Jerry realized his mistake, he figured he would say he grew and learned to help any damage control. I don’t think people really care enough about him for this, but he is rich enough to have people tell him.
What mistake would he need to be concerned about? Jerry has more money than he can spend. I seriously doubt his income is a motivating factor here but I could be wrong.
I was thinking about it through the lens of his PR people and long term. He’s was very popular and has a bunch of money. He doesn’t need to do anything. His PR team is thinking, what about any future money?
His mistake was exactly what he apologized for. Did you read it? It was about not adapting comedy to the audience and time. He mentioned ski slopes and stuff too. That is what I was referring to.
Wait, you wonder why we’re still listening to Jerry Seinfeld about comedy?
Like, I don’t agree with the guy and I don’t think everything he does is funny, but… I mean, I’m a contrarian nerd on the Internet and even I would think about that one twice.
For what it’s worth, you can change your mind on things as often as you want. Hell, I’ll take older rich guys walking back their slow drift rightwards as many times as is necessary.
OK, this thread is increasingly more interesting to me as a snapshot of people’s perception and less about anything Seinfeld does.
So… we all understand that other people’s opinions aren’t held as an attempt to get our personal validation, right?
Like, we’re not the adjudicators? Turns out right wing people don’t need our permission. Shockingly, they don’t even want it. The absolute hubris, I know.
Believe it or not, Seinfeld’s status is not dependent on convincing any of us here that he has changed his mind on this one thing he said once. The right level of scrutiny of this statement is “Cool, I guess”, not “Well, Jerry, I’m going to need you to take some steps to rebuild this relationship”.
It’s good when older men drifting right stop drifting right in that they become less annoying at family dinners and, if they’re famous, they stop disseminating right wing propaganda. That’s it. That’s why. It’s not a test and we’re not grading it.
You’re 100 percent right. I do internally think the ‘cool, I guess.’ it just wouldn’t make a very good conversation on a forum.
The fact they’re making a public statement does sorta imply they’re looking for some validation, otherwise they would just apologize to their closed ones and move on.
But I agree with you, the call to action to comment incentivizes outrage. The normal thing to do is go “huh” and not post, but if you post you’re probably on the outrage side.
I… really don’t like the dynamics that causes. It’s nobody’s fault, it’s the structural incentive system around this stuff.
I personally loved his Getting Coffee series. Honestly, I just like watching him talk about his craft and talking w/ other comedians. I honestly think he could have kept that show going for as long as he felt up to the task and I would have watched.
I do think things like Twitter and being terminally online and trying to “get” people by recording them and starting a tempest in a teapot is very obnoxious. It’s like next-level heckling and I guess I understand why some comedians are kind of done with that. The thing about comedy is that they’ve always talked about “finding the line” with a given audience. It’s supposed to be a bit transgressive and so, yes, some will get offended, but now people seem to go out of their way to be offended by a set they didn’t even attend…
He’s flip-flopped on his bigoted views before. This isn’t the first time and it probably won’t be the last time he does this.
He’s not changing any more than any other right-wing bigot. He’s a conservative. Every word uttered by a conservative is deception or manipulation. In this case, it’s both.
He’s not agreeing with us. He’s still a conservative dickbag whose words are an attempt to maintain his relevance among his peers. He’s aways been a bigot. That is not going to change.
So yeah, cool, Jerry, keep doing that. Love you, Jer. Good job. Totally maintaining that relevance among your peers by doing that. You should go drive an expensive car to get coffee and tell people that more or something.
To be fair, it’s a complicated topic. Some people see humour as a form of therapy or control over dark topics while others see it as a channel to project them. And both are true. Unfortunately many people lack the spark to discern the two and subsequently fall back on the behaviour they are familiar with; picking a side and setting up camp in it.
He’s a total asshole. He may have had the show, but standup isn’t funny and his personal life and stances are questionable. I’d be glad if he just disappeared without a peep. That whiny nasally “I hate everything boo hoo” attitude.
sounds to me like he thought about it and came around
That’s not what it sounds like to me. I think a slightly different kind of absolute nonsense just started coming out of his face:
“I said that the ‘extreme left’ has suppressed the art of comedy… It’s not true. If you’re a champion skier, you can put the gates anywhere you want on the mountain and you’re going to make the gate. That’s comedy. Whatever the culture is, we make the gate. You don’t make the gate, you’re out of the game. The game is where is the gate and how do I make the gate to get down the hill.”
Even you generously interpret that as coherent thought, he’s still saying that the left changed comedy and you can’t make same jokes anymore. No awareness that risky and ‘offensive’ comedy is fine and everywhere, no awareness that there’s a difference between offensive comedy and racism on a stage, no awareness of the social context of his comments amidst the rise of fascism.
He just repeated his comments, but less coherently and with the strongly negative words taken out.
“Does culture change and are their things that I use to say that [I can’t because] people are always moving [the gate]? Yes, but that’s the biggest and easiest target,” Seinfeld added. “You can’t say certain words about groups. So what? The accuracy of your observation has to be 100 times finer than that just to be a comedian…So I don’t think, as I said, the ‘extreme left’ has done anything to inhibit the art of comedy.”
I don’t know, seems pretty cogent to me and it seems pretty far from doubling down.
Why are you guys making me defend Jerry Seinfeld? Seriously, sometimes leftie spaces just can’t take a win.
I don’t think he’s doubling down. Just officially taking back his comments with a bunch of meaningless apology waffle that makes it clear this is not a change of heart, only a change in his official position.
I’m glad that he felt he had to officially change his position, but I think it’s incorrect to frame this as “he thought about it and came around”.
Your quote is just as clear about that as mine. They both have the official position stated clearly: “I said that the ‘extreme left’ has suppressed the art of comedy… It’s not true.”, "I don’t think, as I said, the ‘extreme left’ has done anything to inhibit the art of comedy.”
But the remaining apology waffle makes no sense:
“You can’t say certain words about groups. So what? The accuracy of your observation has to be 100 times finer than that just to be a comedian”
What does it mean that comedians have to be 100 times more accurate than a racial slur?
“things that I use to say that [I can’t because] people are always moving [the gate]? Yes, but that’s the biggest and easiest target”
Target for what? By whom? This sentence still implies that he wants to make the jokes that he used to but can’t anymore.
I mean, it’s not rocket science. He says he has material he used to do that aged poorly and concedes that’s part of the job. I think the point about how comedians need to make observations far finer than just racist jokes generalizing about groups of people is well taken, honestly. “If you’re good at this moving on with the times shouldn’t be a challenge” is not a particularly controversial statement for a comedian. It’s not even a waffle. He’s conceding the point in its entirety.
Again, why are progressives so reticent to take a win? If anything his old take is vindicated by him walking this aaaaall the way back and finding that people would rather be mad at him than have him agree with them.
I don’t think leftists killed comedy, or even edgy comedy, but I do think that online interaction has a stronger reward structure for outrage than understanding and that is fundamentally dysfunctional.
I think you’re meeting him well more than half way in your interpretation. He didn’t condemn making racist jokes, he just acknowledged that people don’t like them anymore. That’s just not “he thought about it and came around”.
“You don’t make the gate, you’re out of the game. The game is where is the gate and how do I make the gate to get down the hill.”
He’s explicitly looking at this as a necessity of his profession, not a change of heart.
OK, but you’re holding his answer to a standard he never claimed.
I mean, he once said that left wing scrutiny had killed comedy. He now says that was wrong and while the goalposts have moved it’s part of the job to meet them there and it’s not that big of a deal anyway.
So he has changed his mind on the thing he’s talking about. Which, sure, I can agree is not the thing you’re talking about. But he’s still walking back his old statement that he says was wrong, that is pretty straightforward.
It’s one thing to argue that he still doesn’t fully agree with your perspective on the issue, which is entirely possible because… well, he doesn’t know who you are or what your perspective is (and presumably doesn’t care). It’s another to deny that he has changed his mind on the issue he actually talked about when he’s telling you plainly that he has changed his mind and he’s giving you a new, completely different position he now holds.
Hey, good for him. I believe firmly in reformation, or reflection and changing your views and it sounds to me like he thought about it and came around, so good.
this is the second time he’s changed his mind on this particular issue. After a certain point I wonder why we’re still listening to him
I think he was trying to get a buzz for his stand-up by going anti-woke. Then those people didn’t show up for him because they are still laughing at Rob Schneider.
After Jerry realized his mistake, he figured he would say he grew and learned to help any damage control. I don’t think people really care enough about him for this, but he is rich enough to have people tell him.
What mistake would he need to be concerned about? Jerry has more money than he can spend. I seriously doubt his income is a motivating factor here but I could be wrong.
I was thinking about it through the lens of his PR people and long term. He’s was very popular and has a bunch of money. He doesn’t need to do anything. His PR team is thinking, what about any future money?
His mistake was exactly what he apologized for. Did you read it? It was about not adapting comedy to the audience and time. He mentioned ski slopes and stuff too. That is what I was referring to.
I refuse to believe anyone is laughing at Rob Schneider.
Wait, you wonder why we’re still listening to Jerry Seinfeld about comedy?
Like, I don’t agree with the guy and I don’t think everything he does is funny, but… I mean, I’m a contrarian nerd on the Internet and even I would think about that one twice.
For what it’s worth, you can change your mind on things as often as you want. Hell, I’ll take older rich guys walking back their slow drift rightwards as many times as is necessary.
I don’t trust it, they turn left and make a walking motion only to start moon walking. Lip service doesn’t mean shit until I see actual actions.
OK, this thread is increasingly more interesting to me as a snapshot of people’s perception and less about anything Seinfeld does.
So… we all understand that other people’s opinions aren’t held as an attempt to get our personal validation, right?
Like, we’re not the adjudicators? Turns out right wing people don’t need our permission. Shockingly, they don’t even want it. The absolute hubris, I know.
Believe it or not, Seinfeld’s status is not dependent on convincing any of us here that he has changed his mind on this one thing he said once. The right level of scrutiny of this statement is “Cool, I guess”, not “Well, Jerry, I’m going to need you to take some steps to rebuild this relationship”.
It’s good when older men drifting right stop drifting right in that they become less annoying at family dinners and, if they’re famous, they stop disseminating right wing propaganda. That’s it. That’s why. It’s not a test and we’re not grading it.
You’re 100 percent right. I do internally think the ‘cool, I guess.’ it just wouldn’t make a very good conversation on a forum.
The fact they’re making a public statement does sorta imply they’re looking for some validation, otherwise they would just apologize to their closed ones and move on.
Well, it was a podcast, I think he was asked.
But I agree with you, the call to action to comment incentivizes outrage. The normal thing to do is go “huh” and not post, but if you post you’re probably on the outrage side.
I… really don’t like the dynamics that causes. It’s nobody’s fault, it’s the structural incentive system around this stuff.
I personally loved his Getting Coffee series. Honestly, I just like watching him talk about his craft and talking w/ other comedians. I honestly think he could have kept that show going for as long as he felt up to the task and I would have watched.
I do think things like Twitter and being terminally online and trying to “get” people by recording them and starting a tempest in a teapot is very obnoxious. It’s like next-level heckling and I guess I understand why some comedians are kind of done with that. The thing about comedy is that they’ve always talked about “finding the line” with a given audience. It’s supposed to be a bit transgressive and so, yes, some will get offended, but now people seem to go out of their way to be offended by a set they didn’t even attend…
He’s flip-flopped on his bigoted views before. This isn’t the first time and it probably won’t be the last time he does this.
He’s not changing any more than any other right-wing bigot. He’s a conservative. Every word uttered by a conservative is deception or manipulation. In this case, it’s both.
Cool.
Please, conservatives, continue to deceive and manipulate us by loudly agreeing with us in public. Much obliged.
He’s not agreeing with us. He’s still a conservative dickbag whose words are an attempt to maintain his relevance among his peers. He’s aways been a bigot. That is not going to change.
Yeah, but I don’t care, he’s saying he does.
So yeah, cool, Jerry, keep doing that. Love you, Jer. Good job. Totally maintaining that relevance among your peers by doing that. You should go drive an expensive car to get coffee and tell people that more or something.
To be fair, it’s a complicated topic. Some people see humour as a form of therapy or control over dark topics while others see it as a channel to project them. And both are true. Unfortunately many people lack the spark to discern the two and subsequently fall back on the behaviour they are familiar with; picking a side and setting up camp in it.
Very true but it can be very easy also to find yourself joking about pain that isn’t yours to joke about. Humility is often crucial in dark jokes
He’s a total asshole. He may have had the show, but standup isn’t funny and his personal life and stances are questionable. I’d be glad if he just disappeared without a peep. That whiny nasally “I hate everything boo hoo” attitude.
That’s not what it sounds like to me. I think a slightly different kind of absolute nonsense just started coming out of his face:
Even you generously interpret that as coherent thought, he’s still saying that the left changed comedy and you can’t make same jokes anymore. No awareness that risky and ‘offensive’ comedy is fine and everywhere, no awareness that there’s a difference between offensive comedy and racism on a stage, no awareness of the social context of his comments amidst the rise of fascism.
He just repeated his comments, but less coherently and with the strongly negative words taken out.
I don’t know, seems pretty cogent to me and it seems pretty far from doubling down.
Why are you guys making me defend Jerry Seinfeld? Seriously, sometimes leftie spaces just can’t take a win.
I don’t think he’s doubling down. Just officially taking back his comments with a bunch of meaningless apology waffle that makes it clear this is not a change of heart, only a change in his official position.
I’m glad that he felt he had to officially change his position, but I think it’s incorrect to frame this as “he thought about it and came around”.
Your quote is just as clear about that as mine. They both have the official position stated clearly: “I said that the ‘extreme left’ has suppressed the art of comedy… It’s not true.”, "I don’t think, as I said, the ‘extreme left’ has done anything to inhibit the art of comedy.”
But the remaining apology waffle makes no sense:
“You can’t say certain words about groups. So what? The accuracy of your observation has to be 100 times finer than that just to be a comedian” What does it mean that comedians have to be 100 times more accurate than a racial slur? “things that I use to say that [I can’t because] people are always moving [the gate]? Yes, but that’s the biggest and easiest target” Target for what? By whom? This sentence still implies that he wants to make the jokes that he used to but can’t anymore.
I mean, it’s not rocket science. He says he has material he used to do that aged poorly and concedes that’s part of the job. I think the point about how comedians need to make observations far finer than just racist jokes generalizing about groups of people is well taken, honestly. “If you’re good at this moving on with the times shouldn’t be a challenge” is not a particularly controversial statement for a comedian. It’s not even a waffle. He’s conceding the point in its entirety.
Again, why are progressives so reticent to take a win? If anything his old take is vindicated by him walking this aaaaall the way back and finding that people would rather be mad at him than have him agree with them.
I don’t think leftists killed comedy, or even edgy comedy, but I do think that online interaction has a stronger reward structure for outrage than understanding and that is fundamentally dysfunctional.
I think you’re meeting him well more than half way in your interpretation. He didn’t condemn making racist jokes, he just acknowledged that people don’t like them anymore. That’s just not “he thought about it and came around”.
“You don’t make the gate, you’re out of the game. The game is where is the gate and how do I make the gate to get down the hill.”
He’s explicitly looking at this as a necessity of his profession, not a change of heart.
OK, but you’re holding his answer to a standard he never claimed.
I mean, he once said that left wing scrutiny had killed comedy. He now says that was wrong and while the goalposts have moved it’s part of the job to meet them there and it’s not that big of a deal anyway.
So he has changed his mind on the thing he’s talking about. Which, sure, I can agree is not the thing you’re talking about. But he’s still walking back his old statement that he says was wrong, that is pretty straightforward.
It’s one thing to argue that he still doesn’t fully agree with your perspective on the issue, which is entirely possible because… well, he doesn’t know who you are or what your perspective is (and presumably doesn’t care). It’s another to deny that he has changed his mind on the issue he actually talked about when he’s telling you plainly that he has changed his mind and he’s giving you a new, completely different position he now holds.
Nice try Jerry, but we’re not falling for that.
He’s a right-wing bigot. His stances have not changed. He’s still a piece of shit, despite his “regrets”.