The ability to change features, prices, and availability of things you’ve already paid for is a powerful temptation to corporations.

  • WindowsEnjoyer@sh.itjust.works
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    7 months ago
    • When you take 5 eur from my pocket - you are stealing.
    • When you take 5 eur from my pocket, make a copy and put my original 5 eur back to my pocket - this is not stealing.
    • kent_eh@lemmy.ca
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      7 months ago

      Further to that, paying for a product then the seller taking that product away from you without refunding your payment is stealing.

      • MonkeMischief@lemmy.today
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        7 months ago

        Man does “Google Nest” come to mind. Buys company. Pushes it all over the place. “Eh, I think we’re done. Whole ecosystem useless now.”

        Which is par for the course with Google and not at all a surprise, but sheesh.

    • poopkins@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      That’s not a fair example, because 5 Euros has an intrinsic value. The theft here is of intellectual property. Here’s an analogy:

      • When you take a book from a book store without paying for it, you are stealing.
      • When you take a book from a book store without paying for it, make an exact replication of it and return the original, you are stealing intellectual property.
        • Uncle_Bagel@midwest.social
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          7 months ago

          How is creating a popular a novel any different than creating a popular object? Hundreds of hours of labor go into both and the creators are entitled to the full value of said labor.

          Say you have an amazing story about the vacation you took last year, and told all your friends about it. You would justifiably be pissed if you later found out one of your friends was telling that story as if they had done it. It’s the same for someone who writes a book or any other form of media.

            • AeroLemming@lemm.ee
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              7 months ago

              Piracy can only be considered to be depriving someone of some good if you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the pirate would have paid for access to the content had they not had a pirated copy available. Not only is this not true in the majority of cases, it’s also completely impossible to prove in 99.9% of the cases where it is true.

                  • Nelots@lemm.ee
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                    7 months ago

                    “renting” it is still taking money from the author even if the damage is physically limited to one item.

                    I do see where you’re coming from, but not necessarily. If my friend has zero interest in ever buying said book (or can’t afford to) and would never become a paying customer, there is no downside to sharing a copy. In fact, if they like the book enough, they may even become incentivized to buy themselves a copy or look into the author’s other work legitimately when they otherwise wouldn’t have.

                    This is how/why I pirate most games. I don’t have the type of pocket money to spend on games I don’t know I’ll love, so I pirate them first. If they’re good enough, I’ll buy the actual game on steam later. Spider-Man, Baldur’s Gate 3, Cassette Beasts, etc. are all games I plan to buy when I can afford to. And I can promise I never would have bought Slime Rancher 2 if I hadn’t pirated the first one at some point and enjoyed it.

            • poopkins@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              There is a difference here between lending or resale of a physical product. Can you sell a second hand book? Typically, yes. Can you do mental gymnastics to draw a parallel to reselling a digital version? Evidently, also yes.

      • psud@aussie.zone
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        7 months ago

        That second dot should be when you make an identical copy of the book without taking it from the shelf. When I get an unlicensed copy of a book, the original is never out of place, not for a moment

        Piracy was huge in Australia back when films were released at staggered times across the world. If it was a winter release in America, it would release six months later in the Australian winter. Try avoiding spoilers online for six months.

        Piracy is less now because things are released everywhere at once and we aren’t harmed by a late release

        Now when companies pull shit like deleting content you think you bought, they encourage people to go around them. Play Station can’t be trusted? Well there are piracy channels that cost only a VPN subscription (and only while you’re collecting media, not after, while watching and storing it) and people will be pushed to those

      • Rodeo@lemmy.ca
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        7 months ago

        Only if you subsequently distribute it does that “theft” break the law.

        Also money doesn’t actually have intrinsic value. It’s just fancy paper. Things like food and shelter and clothing, and the tools and materials with which to make them, that’s what intrinsic value is.

        • poopkins@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Making a copy without the copyright is against the law, no matter which way you slice it. Egregious large-scale infringement is usually prosecuted, whereas it’s otherwise settled civilly. Nevertheless, both constitute copyright infringement.

          Indeed I had the terms confused: it’s incorrect to say fiat currency has intrinsic value; it has instrumental value.

      • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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        7 months ago

        Taking a product from the shop without paying and returning the item later is still stealing.

        The issue here is that there is a period of time where the shop does not have the item.

        • poopkins@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          If you are trying to make an analogy to digital copies, this still doesn’t hold water. The copyright holder does not have ownership of your copy.

          • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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            7 months ago

            The copyright holder should never have ownership of my copy. If I purchase it it should be mine to use. The shop should not be allowed to come to my house and take it away.

            • poopkins@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              The key difference here is that you only own the copy when the copyright holder sells it to you. I don’t know if you’re being obtuse, but this shouldn’t be a difficult concept to grasp. If it helps in understanding, try replacing “copy” with “product” and “copyright holder” with “store.”

              • CileTheSane@lemmy.ca
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                7 months ago

                The key difference here is that you only own the copy when the copyright holder sells it to you

                Right, I should own my copy. I have purchased this copy and it’s mine now. It’s bullshit for a store to say “now that we no longer sell the thing your purchased previously you’re not allowed to own it anymore.”

                • poopkins@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  Ownership is one condition that a copyright holder might offer, but that’s not guaranteed. Video rental shops would allow unlimited consumption for a limited time period, for example. We can argue all day about the differences and what consumers want versus the conditions under which content producers currently operate. I am personally also extremely frustrated by that, and I vote with my wallet: I do not subscribe to services that I find too restrictive or too expensive.

                  Where I am in the minority, however, is my position that copyright infringement is illegal, unethical and can in any way be legitimized.

    • GreenM@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Some people would call it counterfeiting but we won’t do that , right ?

      • amzd@kbin.social
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        7 months ago

        Depends on the intention. Most “illegal” copies are distributed for free so that’s not counterfeiting (there’s no intention to deceive or defraud)

        • And009@lemmynsfw.com
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          7 months ago

          That’s probably going into semantics and what the law says, it’s different for every country.

          What’s happening with games and softwares are cracks and repacking, it’s manipulating few parts of the original product to provide partial or sometimes full functionality. This is an infringement of intellectual property and not a counterfeit.

          For podcasts, music and movies it’s usually a rip, out of vinyls, lossless or a high definition source. These are copies, not manipulated in any way.

          Maybe camrips are truly a counterfeit.

          • Rodeo@lemmy.ca
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            7 months ago

            … This is an infringement of intellectual property …

            Not unless it’s distributed.

            Copying copyrighted works is not a crime. Distributing those copies is a crime.

            • poopkins@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              Copyright doesn’t explicitly say anything about distribution. Distribution is usually used to determine the scale of the crime and calculating incurred damages.

        • GreenM@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          I have yet to see country that doesn’t mind copying their currency unofficially but I’m open to suggestions 🫡

          • amzd@kbin.social
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            7 months ago

            Correct, that would be counterfeiting if you would copy money with the intention to deceive or defraud others. That doesn’t contradict what I said.

            • GreenM@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              IMHO it does contradict what you say. Intention doesn’t matter. If you copy currency , you either have to make apparent its fake currency or you are might get in trouble with law. Intention, aka motive is hard to prove and if proven doesn’t make it legal to copy official currency.

    • SCB@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      If you have sex with, but don’t pay a prostitute, are you stealing?

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          No because the entire metaphor is built on the concept of prostitution

          • zbyte64@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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            7 months ago

            Prostitutes can’t have a romantic life unless they’re paid to do so? This is such a bizarre metaphor, let’s see where it leads 🍿

            Also: if there’s no consent it’s not steeling, it is rape. It’s really strange to think how because of someone’s profession we recontextualize the act as steeling and not rape. Ie it’s like saying one is steeling from prostitutes while not addressing the fucking rape. This is your brain on Milton Friedman economics - where your body is capital and it has a price.

      • psud@aussie.zone
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        7 months ago

        Piracy is also not at all like stealing services, just as it is unlike theft of real items.

        Not paying a prostitute because you have a sexual partner at home who meets your needs is closer, but also not the same

        • SCB@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Except your literally performing the same service, which I paid by everyone but you. Game of Thrones is expensive. Subs pay for it.

          Fuck man I’m pro-piracy because I do it to, but it is absolutely stealing. Make peace with it.

          • psud@aussie.zone
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            7 months ago

            Stealing is the wrong word for it though as software piracy does not deprive the owner of the thing copied.

            There are arguments that it is nett good even as it gets people into an author, singer, game company, while they cannot afford it and they may become a good customer for that author, singer, game company later in life

            This new problem where companies revoke your licence to content is the industry shooting itself in the foot so I don’t care about the ethics of it, if they don’t sell me a product for me to own like I own a paper book, I’ll take a copy without licence

            • poopkins@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              How is the owner not deprived of your copy? Have you given it back to them? It’s an odd thing to mince over words like “theft” and “stealing.” If it’s the words that bother you, perhaps consider this: should it be permissible to consume a digital good without consent of the copyright holder?

              If the copyright holder wants more exposure, that is up to them to decide. It’s absolutely unreasonable to do so on their behalf and claim it’s somehow doing them a favor. With that logic, any form of theft can be legitimized.