I feel like a lot of “woke” shows are not great, but they get a cult of defenders and haters boosting it’s popularity because of some perceived culture war. When it’s really just execs trying to make their milk toast milquetoast slop shamelessly appeal to a wider audience.
No one complains about Spiderverse (after it came out) because it was good
Like how Marvel writers lately keep saying they’re getting hate for writing strong female leads, when really they’re getting hate for writing idiotic Mary Sue’s.
The standard for a Mary Sue character has gone way up too. The Japanese really figured out the formula with isikais where the protagonist is almost always good at everything or OP in some way, but the writing/world building is better. There are enough gems amongst the garbage that people know what a good one should contain now.
I’m really not sure how the isekai genre comes up if we’re to look for good writing. Every isekai protagonist seems like the definition of a Mary Sue, or whatever the male term is.
Exactly. You’re not supposed to mention what they “identify” as. Or any other gender nonsense. Unless it is the focal point of the story to be told, then don’t mention it. That’s how you normalize something. By not drawing attention to it.
My favorite example is a character on Agents of Shield. He was a scientist that had a drinking problem. We knew about it from the start but didn’t find out why until later in the season. Years prior, he was drinking and driving while his husband was in the passenger seat. Got into a wreck, and his husband died. It wasn’t until that moment that we knew he was gay. Why? Because it was irrelevant. Spoiler alert, no one cared. He was a well written character, who was easy to sympathize with, who coincidentally happened to be gay.
while not movie media, the same can be said with games. BG3 is blatently woke, hell the emperor blatently hits on the player regardless of gender and other elements. Elden Rings mythos is basically full of woke elements (Marika creating Radagon, who is basically herself, but in Male form to get into a romance with Renalla. just on this element alone, it is either considered trans (Marika having a clone who changed genders) or lesbian (if you choose to believe Marika is always female and trans not being a thing) as the relationship with renalla happened.)
while there will be people who will complain about it, if the contents good, people will overlook it.
Totally, the other thing both of your examples did well is actually integrate the “Woke™” elements into their world in a natural and believable way. None of it unearthed established canon or went out of its way to score rainbow capitalist diversity points
I saw someone saying the little girl who played princes Leia is a “national treasure” on reddit. I don’t think a normal person goes around talking like that.
My entry point into Star Wars was KotOR so I’ve always been pretty critical of the average Star Wars media. I really enjoyed Rogue One, Andor, Mandalorian S1&2, and Clone Wars S7. Star Wars can deliver sometimes.
With a budget of $180M I was hopeful that Acolyte could be great, and it hasn’t delivered yet.
What does this mean, you admit this particular show is not very good but might eventually be good?
This stupid woke/dei shit is just the culture war du jour, if the product that was being released was excellent, there wouldn’t be as much fuel to call a show bad for whatever reason.
But as the previous poster noted, there have been properties that were celebrated on release because they are good. The first Mandalorian episodes meet a near orgasmic fervor.
Acolyte at best is maybe just ok to not very compelling imo, that’s up against the other now recent star wars properties like Andor, which is and was critically acclaimed. The argument just falls apart when you use an objectively not very good show like Acolyte.
I mean the shows premier was a rocky start but it’s getting better. I think it’d a decent set up. Even the first three episodes of Andor were pretty slow. You have to set the stage. Introduce the characters. The plot. The season is going to be good, I’m very sure.
On the one hand I don’t mind some new interesting plots involving same sex partners or similar. However, I agree with you that modern studios are forcing the issue to the point that it ruins everything.
The new show isn’t great for reasons other than Disney being woke.
I feel like a lot of “woke” shows are not great, but they get a cult of defenders and haters boosting it’s popularity because of some perceived culture war. When it’s really just execs trying to make their
milk toastmilquetoast slop shamelessly appeal to a wider audience.No one complains about Spiderverse (after it came out) because it was good
Bigots aside, I’m convinced most people are 100% fine with queer and gender non-conforming characters so long as they’re well written.
People like characters that act like actual people – not pandering, one dimensional, rainbow capitalistic tokens.
Like how Marvel writers lately keep saying they’re getting hate for writing strong female leads, when really they’re getting hate for writing idiotic Mary Sue’s.
The standard for a Mary Sue character has gone way up too. The Japanese really figured out the formula with isikais where the protagonist is almost always good at everything or OP in some way, but the writing/world building is better. There are enough gems amongst the garbage that people know what a good one should contain now.
There’s also a pile of harem anime that used most the same ideas.
I’m really not sure how the isekai genre comes up if we’re to look for good writing. Every isekai protagonist seems like the definition of a Mary Sue, or whatever the male term is.
i’ve heard of ‘gary sue’ before but i dont really think it fits well
At least they don’t use black face
Exactly. You’re not supposed to mention what they “identify” as. Or any other gender nonsense. Unless it is the focal point of the story to be told, then don’t mention it. That’s how you normalize something. By not drawing attention to it.
My favorite example is a character on Agents of Shield. He was a scientist that had a drinking problem. We knew about it from the start but didn’t find out why until later in the season. Years prior, he was drinking and driving while his husband was in the passenger seat. Got into a wreck, and his husband died. It wasn’t until that moment that we knew he was gay. Why? Because it was irrelevant. Spoiler alert, no one cared. He was a well written character, who was easy to sympathize with, who coincidentally happened to be gay.
milquetoast btw https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milquetoast
confusing isn’t it?
Thank you my dude 🙏
I prefer milk steak.
while not movie media, the same can be said with games. BG3 is blatently woke, hell the emperor blatently hits on the player regardless of gender and other elements. Elden Rings mythos is basically full of woke elements (Marika creating Radagon, who is basically herself, but in Male form to get into a romance with Renalla. just on this element alone, it is either considered trans (Marika having a clone who changed genders) or lesbian (if you choose to believe Marika is always female and trans not being a thing) as the relationship with renalla happened.)
while there will be people who will complain about it, if the contents good, people will overlook it.
Totally, the other thing both of your examples did well is actually integrate the “Woke™” elements into their world in a natural and believable way. None of it unearthed established canon or went out of its way to score rainbow capitalist diversity points
I’m pretty sure the defenders are 99% bots.
I saw someone saying the little girl who played princes Leia is a “national treasure” on reddit. I don’t think a normal person goes around talking like that.
I liked Obi-Wan because I liked seeing Obi-Wan hit Vader with a lightsaber and Corran Horn being semi-canonized
Everything else is irrelevant.
I don’t like the visuals of Spiderverse
Some people say all art is subjective
They are wrong, like you!
i dont like food
That’s great and fine but you can apply this meme to every new show 🤭
There’s a pattern.
My entry point into Star Wars was KotOR so I’ve always been pretty critical of the average Star Wars media. I really enjoyed Rogue One, Andor, Mandalorian S1&2, and Clone Wars S7. Star Wars can deliver sometimes.
With a budget of $180M I was hopeful that Acolyte could be great, and it hasn’t delivered yet.
It’s on a positive trajectory however.
What does this mean, you admit this particular show is not very good but might eventually be good?
This stupid woke/dei shit is just the culture war du jour, if the product that was being released was excellent, there wouldn’t be as much fuel to call a show bad for whatever reason.
But as the previous poster noted, there have been properties that were celebrated on release because they are good. The first Mandalorian episodes meet a near orgasmic fervor.
Acolyte at best is maybe just ok to not very compelling imo, that’s up against the other now recent star wars properties like Andor, which is and was critically acclaimed. The argument just falls apart when you use an objectively not very good show like Acolyte.
I mean the shows premier was a rocky start but it’s getting better. I think it’d a decent set up. Even the first three episodes of Andor were pretty slow. You have to set the stage. Introduce the characters. The plot. The season is going to be good, I’m very sure.
Fair points, all of them, I’ve heard from a friend that the most recent episode is excellent. I’ll keep giving it time.
It was mad. Definitely worth it.
It’s a CW level show
In what world is it a positive trajectory? The first two episodes were by far the strongest, and it’s been falling fast in 3 and 4.
Lol
On the one hand I don’t mind some new interesting plots involving same sex partners or similar. However, I agree with you that modern studios are forcing the issue to the point that it ruins everything.