Aside from racism. I mean economically/socially, what issues does too much immigration cause?

  • EnderMB@lemmy.world
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    15 days ago

    In my opinion, country-based immigration paired with needs-based works really well.

    Ultimately, many of the best parts of the culture of a place are because of what people brought with them years ago. Some of the best restaurants are because someone in India moved to the UK, and then moved to the US and brought the culture of Curry Mile or Brick Lane with them, or because a community of Greek railroad workers decided to set up bakeries using their known recipes that all the locals love.

    The same often goes for business. Look at the rise of Aldi and Lidl, and how cheap produce and great workers rights will suddenly make local supermarkets look in bewilderment at how markets they once dominated are being torn away from them.

    IMO, if you have skills to offer, you should be welcome. I’m currently in the process of moving to the US on a high-skilled visa, and it is mad how one country will require thousands in legal fees and 24+ month waits while a country next door will say “Shit, you can teach?! Come join us! If you want to stay permanently that’s fine!”

  • fart_pickle@lemmy.world
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    15 days ago

    It’s a complex and polarising issue. The main problem is that some, sometimes most, of immigrants don’t want to assimilate. They are creating ghettos, don’t respect local laws. Other issue is that governments prefer to spend tax payer money for accommodating immigrants instead of solving nation’s issues.

    I wouldn’t limit immigration per se. I would limit unchecked illegal immigration and spend more money on assimilating immigrants that want to contribute to a country they moved into.

    • Adderbox76@lemmy.ca
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      15 days ago

      The main problem is that some, sometimes most, of immigrants don’t want to assimilate. They are creating ghettos, don’t respect local laws.

      Generalisations like this are the very reason it’s a polarising issue. Opinions like yours generally derive from “observation” and “gut feeling”. Which by definition is completely anecdotal and harmful when it begins to be applied to millions of people all at once.

      Betsy from insert town here sees an immigrant couple down the street in her home-town keeping to themselves and not really wanting to take part in the community. She’s talking on the phone to nosy-nessie the town busybody who says “oh…you know…my aunt said the same thing about her insert culture neighbours.” And then all of a sudden, that’s just “how those people are”…all of them…everywhere.

      Maybe this couple is just a little embarrassed about their english skills and want to strengthen them more before going into public everywhere, which comes across as shy. Maybe they’re just private…who knows. But suddenly…“it’s just how (those people) are”, becomes the anecdotal “truth”.

      It’s wrong, it’s dangerous, and the fact that you don’t even grasp the irony of your own comment is telling in a lot of ways.

      • Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world
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        14 days ago

        No unfortunately. There is plenty of evidence of immigrants building their own justice systems and authorities under the radar of their new countries because it goes against the freedoms and expectations.

        We shouldn’t ignore that and not talk about it.

        • Adderbox76@lemmy.ca
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          14 days ago

          Great. Then you shouldn’t have any problem coming up with three examples for us all.

  • HelixDab2@lemm.ee
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    16 days ago

    Mostly to avoid having infrastructure and social safety networks overwhelmed. Yes, you will also see wages be depressed by large-scale immigration, but that’s something that could–in theory–be controlled by strengthening unions and labor regulations. That’s not where we are though; right now, unions and labor regulations are fairly weak, and are being gutted by courts even as the NLRB tries to strengthen them.

    Housing takes time to build, and good city planning is necessary to ensure that cities are sustainable rather than being sprawls. (Not many cities do that, BTW; it’s usually, “oh, we’ll just add another lane to the existing 20 lane interstate”). Given that we’re currently in a situation where there’s insufficient low- and middle-income high density housing, and few companies are willing to build any more, competition for most of the immigrants that we’re seeing–people that are trying to get away from deep economic woes–would be fierce for housing.

    • Cryophilia@lemmy.worldOP
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      16 days ago

      and few companies are willing to build any more

      I don’t think this is actually true. At least in my area, developers would LOVE to build condos and apartments all over the place, but local laws are holding them back.

      I suppose even in a perfectly willing area that upgrades its infrastructure to support more people, you don’t want to move people in too quickly, before that infrastructure is available. But it’s easy to see that become a self fulfilling prophecy: we don’t take immigrants because we don’t have the infrastructure, and we don’t build the infrastructure because there’s no demand for it.

      • Phil_in_here@lemmy.ca
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        16 days ago

        I don’t think anyone wants to make a brand new condo and try to full it full of fresh immigrants that other businesses are exploiting to pay less.

        They want to develop 1 set of condos they can sell for $300k+ rather than 3 sets for $100k

          • Phil_in_here@lemmy.ca
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            16 days ago

            No. No, that’s not it at all.

            Immigrants would be better served by unprofitable low income housing, not feeding their meager scraps to pay artificially inflated rent prices to an offshore real estate investment company.

            • Cryophilia@lemmy.worldOP
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              15 days ago

              Well duh. In fact, they’d be better served by FREE housing!

              In the realm of realistic solutions, apartments.

              • Phil_in_here@lemmy.ca
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                15 days ago

                Fun fact! My coworker pays more in rent for his apartment than I do on the mortgage of my house. Most often this is true.

                I’m getting a once over by the bank, he’s getting done once over by the bank and again by his landlord, and they might not ever be different.

                So how is an immigrant supposed to thrive when a foreign investment firm is profiting off them twice?

                Subsidize affordable housing, tax wholesale & foreign landlords out of existence. It’s simple.

  • weew@lemmy.ca
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    15 days ago

    It can suppress wages.

    Immigrants often are expected to work for less money. After all, they usually immigrate from an economically worse country, so they don’t expect to land top tier wages.

    You keep filling in minimum wage jobs with an endless supply of immigrants, then there is never a worker shortage and never any incentive to raise the bar. No company needs to compete with higher wages to attract talent. In fact, it can make things worse and cause a race to the bottom… Reducing wages on existing positions until workers quit and just filling it with less skilled workers.

  • courval@lemmy.world
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    15 days ago

    The “shot in the foot” effect when you accept immigrants from conservative/racist countries and they and - most likely - the next generation will vote right wing which more accurately mirrors those conservative/racist beliefs.

  • SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca
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    14 days ago

    From an economic perspective, it’s mostly positive. Raising a child is expensive, and those costs go on for about 20 years before you have a person that’s economically productive. Most Immigrants are adults and can join the workforce immediately. The economic costs of their childhood was paid by the country they came from. It’s a negative for the country they came from, this is refereed to as a “brain drain.” But for their new country, it’s like a tax paying worker just appeared out of nowhere.

    As for the economic negatives, the big one is housing. Too much immigration all at once can result in a shortage of housing. It can also put stress on public services and infrastructure. Businesses may not have the capacity to serve a larger population. These things can adapt of course, but you can’t instantly build a house and you can’t instantly expand public services, etc. So you might want to limit immigration so an area can adapt to all of the various economic needs of a larger population. An immigrant will work and pay taxes and contribute to the local economy, so long term it’s all positives, but there can be a lot of short term problems if a population grows to rapidly.

    As for social… well I’m not really much of a sociologist, but just from I can see, people who already live in an area might be uncomfortable being around people of a different culture. Might say crazy things like “They’re eating the dogs!” Yeah that’s crazy, but it is a problem. Not caused by the immigrants themselves, but it’s a problem that does happen when there’s immigration.

    But there’s social benefits. Can learn from a new culture. May get some new options for restaurants to go to.

    Generally the young will enjoy more social benefit (going out to the different restaurants and learning about different cultures), but the older people will tend to be uncomfortable with it. But that’s just the tendency.

    So overall I’d say you do need limits on immigration to mitigate the short term issues, but it’s all positives in the long term.

  • Flax@feddit.uk
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    16 days ago

    Housing, job availability and potential erasure of culture. I think it depends on what migrants you let in though. Also some groups forming bubbles and refusing to integrate as well.

    Personally though, I think kids watching american media on their mum’s ipads is a greater risk to our culture than Mohammed and his family down the street

    Also, some immigrants are more racist than white people. Which is sometimes kind of funny. Although my white friend got beat up in Bradford, so sometimes it isn’t.

  • pumpkinseedoil@sh.itjust.works
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    16 days ago

    There only are so many resources for them. Here in many European countries the main issue (I think) is that with the current numbers we fail to teach them all our language (it’s simply not possible without having more language teachers available, and apart from needing those teachers that also needs more money). Without knowing the language their professional development is massively hindered, causing many to remain lower class, and causing disproportionately high crime rates among certain groups.

    This leads to further problems: In the big cities there already are schools where people who speak the local language are a minority (for example in a primary school near me they have two classes for each grade (1-4) for children who can’t speak German yet and one class for all grades together for German speaking children).

    So guess what people do: They go to a district with less immigrants, while the districts with many immigrants keep getting more immigrants (since cost of living is low there and as pointed out earlier many struggle to leave lower class). We’re re-creating segregation. This makes it even harder for those people to leave lower class, since they have no networking opportunities but only know others from lower class instead.

    Even the left wing parties are now saying that we have to reduce immigration and instead integrate immigrants better.

    • TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee
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      15 days ago

      So the reason to limit immigration is because you fail to teach them the language? How is that a reason, and not just one form of limitation?

      Instead, why not ask: why not invest more into supporting integration programs? Because immigration tends to have hugely positive impacts on the target society. The only reason not to invest in it would be… 🤔 some kind of fear…

  • jet@hackertalks.com
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    16 days ago

    How quickly your culture can absorb new people. If you’ve got a hundred people who are in culture a, and you integrate 100 people from culture b. Now culture a is 50/50. And it’s hard for culture a to maintain its traditional positioning.

    If you want to maintain a culture, a people, a language, you need to gate how many people enter the population at any time. So that it can be absorbed.

    You similar problems with militaries, how quickly they can ramp up new recruits will still maintaining their previous cadre culture.

    • fraksken@infosec.pub
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      16 days ago

      There’s something to be said for culture and tradition, which have been for a long time the cornerstones of our civilization.

      Everybody has their own opinion on this of course. For me, I feel that culture and tradition are in the way of progress. At some point our current traditions, cultures and values will change, they will evolve. I’m all in for a true multicultural society if there is a clear segregation between state and religion.

      • sir_pronoun@lemmy.world
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        16 days ago

        Problems start when the people coming in don’t share those sentiments and instead want their authoritarian culture to replace and dominate.

        Edit: also, in the West democracy and equality have become part of our culture and tradition, for the most part, and those values just are not shared by lots of migrants. And you can’t tolerate those values being replaced. It’s the paradox of tolerance.

  • HobbitFoot @thelemmy.club
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    15 days ago

    Aside from racism, it is usually the belief that the new immigrants will either be economic competition for those with jobs or a drain on welfare.

    • kent_eh@lemmy.ca
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      15 days ago

      That combined with a lack of available housing are the answers I see most often.

      • zbyte64@awful.systems
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        14 days ago

        Gee, if only we could find the labor to build some extra housing. Must be that the immigrants taking our jobs just don’t want to work these days.

        • lud@lemm.ee
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          14 days ago

          You also need money, materials, and space to build housing though and I doubt all immigrants are carpenters, electricians, plumbers, and all the other professionals needed to build homes.