The company behind Trump Watches prominently features an iconic image of the presidential candidate on its timepieces. There’s one big problem: It’s not allowed to.
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According to the Associated Press, though, TheBestWatchesonEarth LLC advertised a product it can’t deliver, as that image is owned by the 178-year-old news agency. This week, the AP told WIRED it is pursuing a cease and desist against the LLC, which is registered in Sheridan, Wyoming. (The company did not reply to a request for comment about the cease and desist letter.)
Evan Vucci, the AP’s Pulitzer Prize–winning chief photographer, took that photograph, and while he told WIRED he does not own the rights to that image, the AP confirmed earlier this month in an email to WIRED that it is filing the written notice. “AP is proud of Evan Vucci’s photo and recognizes its impact,” wrote AP spokesperson Nicole Meir. “We reserve our rights to this powerful image, as we do with all AP journalism, and continue to license it for editorial use only.”
This guy doesn’t even know how to breathe without doing something illegal, does he…?
“Lemme tell ya folks, people say I have the best lungs. Truly spectacular. I can inhale carbon dioxide and exhale fresh, clean oxygen. They tell me this is illegal. That I’m a Russian house plant. They’re just jealous.”
tbf not owning images of yourself is very counter-intuitive
Any image of you in public belongs to the person capturing it. Imagine what it would be like if that wasn’t the case. All the pictures you ever took, if there are people in them other than you, you need a signed model lease.
I think for commercial use, that would be fair. IMO photographs should be considered collaborations between the one who took the picture and anyone (recognizable) in it. If you don’t want to get consent from everyone in a photo, blur out their faces.
France has something similar in their books. But it’s not enough for you to be recognizable, you sort of have to be both recognizable and the subject of the photo. But that would just mean neither party gets to use the photo unless they agree on terms. There are exceptions for journalism and other situations.
It’s quite complicated. There’s a reason most places don’t follow that model. And you can always cover yourself in public if you don’t want people to see your image. It’s a point where the freedom of two parties collide and there’s no clear answer on where one ends and the other begins. The law has to draw a line somewhere.
As usual, this probably won’t amount to even so much as a slap on the gold-plated wrist for him
Well, that’s kind of what a cease and desist is. It says, in a formal but mostly polite way, “stop doing that or we’ll become less nice”.
The watch website says the final version may not look like the pictures. Also they don’t have a production or delivery timeline and no promises of delivery.
And why the fuck should it result in more? This is petty bullshit that doesn’t matter.
You’re a Trump supporter. Your position makes sense in that context.
I don’t agree with them, but you can’t just call someone a nazi without evidence.
ITT: people that have been stealing or paying for creative work through selling their data for so long they forgot (or never knew) laws about this exist and/or how they work.
Considering how many people think they’re just one boring stream of them playing a video game away from making it big as a “content creator,” it’s petty shocking.
200m is how far you can walk before the watch falls apart.
Trumpers razor, the correct solution is most often crime
Add it on the pile hoss, there’s a lot of shit to shovel
It looks like it’s a re-drawn image and not an actual “copy” of the image, so wouldn’t that mean they can’t do fuck all about it? Obviously it was made to look like the image, but does that actually count for anything? I wouldn’t think it would.
It’s definitely a representation of the original but much like how you can just reverse a video to avoid copyright this isn’t an exact copy of the original.
Edit: I realize now that I was wrong about the reversed video. I do however think this is a weak case legally since it’s not an exact copy but I obviously don’t know what I’m talking about. Lol
You can’t simply reverse a video to avoid copyright. What gave you that idea?
People do it all the time on YouTube?
Surely you’re joking? People do it on YouTube to avoid automated detection. You would be laughed out of court for trying to assert copyright over a reversed video as a derivative work.
I mean I’ll lead by saying “fuck Trump” however I would be a little annoyed if I wanted to use a depiction of myself and someone came to yell at me about it.
Actually no, when you go to a professional photographer to have your picture taken, you pay for it. Because they put in the work and need to be compensated for it. By that logic people would never have to pay photographers for portraits, weddings, none of that. Just because you’re in a picture doesn’t mean you don’t owe a debt to the person who took it.
Yeah, but if I then want to put that picture of me on my social media page or a website or the back of a cheaply-manufactured wristwatch or what have you, why is the photographer allowed to tell me no?
Well if you want an argument based on ‘first principles’, because the photographer actually put work into producing this picture, let alone their knowledge, likely expensive equipment, and hard earned skill to take a truly great shot, whereas you did nothing for it. Unless you are a professional model, but then you probably got compensated for your work as part of a deal.
Now the uses you describe are very different. Some are more casual and non-commercial in nature. Courts will consider such factors in a copyright infringement case.
Now does the above mean you have absolutely no say in what happens to a picture of you taken by someone else? Not exactly, you can also prevent third parties from using the likeness of you for purposes that might be damaging to your dignity or reputation, again, in some jurisdictions, I do not know the details. I am not a lawyer and it was a long time ago I studied these subjects. But basically my point is that the fact that it’s you in the picture may matter to an extent, depending on laws protecting personhood in your country, but not in the way you assumed where every photo of you is yours for the taking.
Because you don’t own the image. You are not images of yourself. Are you one of those people that thinks cameras steal a part of your soul or something? This isn’t difficult to understand.
Considering it’s me in the picture, and thus my reputation on the line if it gets misused, I think I should have some say.
Thanks for strawmanning me though.
Well. You don’t.
Well, that’s stupid.
I hate trump but I hate copyright law way more.
Ugh… Go trump … pukes
EDit: so many people are malding lmao. Even got boneheaded DMS ヾ(⌐■_■)ノ
Copyright laws are bullshit in that their terms are way too long and are often too easily abused against people who are using copywritten materials under fair use. However copyright as a concept is not bullshit. Creative works, including photography, should absolutely be protected from unauthorized use for the benefit of the creator.
Also, there is nothing redeemable about Trump. Even if you feel that copyright law is somehow fundamentally wrong, the correct position can actually be “fuck all parties involved” instead of supporting Trump hawking his swag to pay for his campaign of fascism.
However copyright as a concept is not bullshit. Creative works, including photography, should absolutely be protected from unauthorized use for the benefit of the creator.
Sure, creative works should be protected. But not all works are creative enough to be protected. I disagree a photograph like this should have any protection. If the photographer put in their creativity or something else to create it then sure. Then it should be protected. This photo was taken on public event of people and stuff out of the photographers influence and IMO shouldn’t be protected
The creativity is in how the photo was shot; the camera settings, framing, when the photographer chose to take the photo, etc. To say that anyone could have taken this exact photo is both incorrect and doesn’t matter. Anyone could have written any book, play, or script but they didn’t. Anyone could have painted pretty much any particular painting, but they didn’t. I don’t disagree that many aspects of US copyright law are ridiculous, but to say there’s no artistic vision in taking a photograph like this is ignorant.
Ummm… no. Copyright law sucks, but it’s really the only protection for artists/writers/etc. in this case, Trump sucks way worse than copyright law lmao.
He’s literally stealing someone’s work and attempting to make money off it as his own.
Yet you say “Go Trump.” Copyright law is all it takes for you to publicly support a fascist. Absolutely amazing.
Do you also hate the wishes of the artist who sold it to the news agency to earn a living and keep the image under editorial use as opposed to being commercialized and sold to benefit the Trump campaign? Whether you agree with how it’s being used or not, that’s what the photographer decided was best for their work.
Good thing the watch doesn’t contain that photographer’s work then
Yes… it does. People are wildly ignorant about copyright law, wow.
I just want to say:
Fuck Copyright
Sure, until you become a creative professional and you see someone with a lot more money than you making even more money off your work, and then you might instead say “fuck that guy”!
Most people say things like “fuck copyright” because it’s currently set up to benefit employers, large companies, and wealthy people; creators are an obstacle in copyright law. Current copyright law hinders creativity and centralizes wealth. Fuck copyright.
If copyright law was creator-centric, there would be a lot fewer people saying “fuck copyright”.
Personally I’d probably still be against copyright, but only if there was some other way to take care of artists, like a UBI or something.
I understand the sentiment, and you are right, that copyright is an obstacle to some forms of creativity, especially anything that involves direct reuse of somebody else’s work without their consent. It has also enabled a marketplace for content that has, like many other markets over time, led to the concentration of market power in a small number of business concerns, who effectively dominate their fields with extensive content libraries and armies of lawyers and lobbyists to promote their interests.
However, one should still not forget, that if you’re just an independent creator who depends on their creativity to make a living and at some point manages to create something of great value, it is more likely than not that other small or big fish will try to take that and sell it without giving you a penny. And your only recourse will be copyright law. As in this case here. Saying “fuck copyright” without critically engaging with what is actually at stake in a specific case, can lead to a problematic stance where you may find yourself defending grifters against honest creators trying to make a living off their work.
You’re not wrong, but, like with critics of other “abolish such-n-such” statements, you’re missing a core part of it: replacing “such-n-such” with something better. Copyright has a few important purposes, and I don’t think anyone would want to eliminate it without covering those — and the need for creators to survive, and maybe even flourish, is chief among them.
(Same thing with “defund the police” — the intention was to redirect that funding to crime prevention and “alternative policing” (eg send therapists to mental health emergencies instead of cops). That was arguably the biggest PR fail of the century.)
Also, very very minor point, but as a librarian:
content libraries
I think “content collections” would be a better term, to preserve the free-to-share subtext of the word “library” — and “collection” has more of a hoarding context, which fits.
Since some commenters on here seemed a little too eager to go with “fuck copyright” and outright dismiss the particular copyright claim the story was about, I thought I’d help make sure they understand that it’s not all bad. Too often have well intentioned people been too quick to dismiss a setup, only to replace it with something worse - or without really having any idea what to replace it with. You seem to understand that copyright serves a useful function in the current market-based economy, warts and all.
