Is this some sort of American thing I’m too European to understand?
Yes, it is. That’s because companies like trying unpopular policies in America first before moving them to Europe.
Try telling that to my unequivocal legal right to return anything for any reason within 14 days at no cost to myself other than postage
Yes. You have to pay for postage. Americans pay nothing and Amazon forced them to pay one dollar. I’m sure retailers would happily trade free returns for a 14-day return policy that makes the customer pay for postage.
In Sweden. Never paid postage to return anything to a shop. Never paid postage to send a product anywhere, actually, be it for warranty or what have you. Typically the store either gives you a shipping label to print out, or they send you one.
That’s usually how it is in America too. Amazon started charging $1 if you took it to a courier office instead of a Whole Foods (Amazon-owned grocery store chain) if the Whole Foods was closer to you.
Det inte sant,eller?? Även med Biltema, Stadium ? Aldrig har provat, jag tar grejer direkt till butik. Om det är sant jag vill gärna stoppa köra att bära retur.grejerna.
Yup, thats because the EU actually protects their consumers unlike the great ol’ US of A
It depends. If the company dives in headfirst with anticonsumer practices in the EU, you’re correct; EU institutions will regulate them out. But there’s a much smarter strategy that works more often than I think you’d like to admit:
- Start said anticonsumer practice in the USA
- USA is slower to enact legislation against it
- US customers get used to it
- Inch EU customers into said practices
- When confronted, point to the USA and say that the Americans are fine with it so it must not be that bad.
- 50% of the time EU regulators respond with “oh, alright then”. The news of said practice being introduced into the EU appears on The Register for a day and then everyone forgets about it. Most EU consumers don’t realise it happened.
To do this in the EU would mean breaking the law, which mandates 14 days of free returns with no requirement to justify the reason whatsoever, so I’m pretty sure this wouldn’t work ;-).
In the states these laws and policies vary. 14 days is a reasonable amount of time for a return free of charge. A lot of companies in the states have offered free 30 day returns and people have (as they do) taken advantage of that. Target here has banned certain individuals from returns for up to a year because they were returning items on purpose in order to buy them cheaper in store as an open box item or what have you. Amazon used to let you return just about anything regardless of the time passed. But this has led to significant waste. They sell off returned items by the pallet load and it’s basically a free for all grab bag scenario. And half of it ends up in a landfill anyway.
And to be perfectly honest what is under discussion isn’t free returns. It’s free shipping on returns.
All it would take to work is a change in legislation. So if I were you I’d be diligent about keeping an eye on it because there’s a second side to living in a country quick to enact legislation.
Yes, it would. The law says that the cost of the return can be borne by the buyer. So making customers pay for the cost of return postage would not be against the law. The company is not required to provide an absolutely free return.
When confronted, point to the USA and say that the Americans are fine with it so it must not be that bad.
Are you acquainted with the connotation of the term “American conditions”?
You guys don’t drunk-order a bunch of useless shit then expect to return it for no cost once buyer’s remorse sinks in?
Point is, we have laws enforcing that possibility. It’s not goodwill from companies…
It’s not goodwill from companies…
Nothing good for customers ever is
Why yes, yes we do
You guys get free health care and you can return stuff? Also, don’t you have a guaranteed warranty of 3 or 4 years?
Five years, actually, here in Norway. Technically two years, and five if the product is meant to last appreciably longer than two years. But that is true for most things except wearable electronics like earbuds.
I know you guys don’t live in utopia, but fuck, you have it better than us in a lot of ways.
Most 3rd world counties have it better than the US
I think they call it developing countries now. I don’t think Mexico is considered developing but has free healthcare, who else are you talking about?
First world = NATO
Second world = Warsaw Pact
Third world = non-aligned
Developed world = rich countries
Developing world = poor countries
Global south = also poor countries, but with more emphasis on Africa and South America
Thanks for that comment, US is down to #21 on that list. I don’t see Mexico on the developed world list, so I guess they are developing but still have free health care.
In Australia our consumer protection laws have minimum warranty for most items (eg 3yrs or something for basic electronic products) but it scales with cost and quality.
It does not apply to everything as far as i know, but say you buy a $8,000 TV, you would likely get 5-6 years warranty because a TV of that cost should imply, to a reasonable consumer, it is of a quality that would be expected to last 5-6 years.2 years by law everywhere in the EU.
Two, but I don’t think it applies to medical procedures
War-ranty? What is this? A guarantee of war? Sounds like apple pie to me. 🇺🇸
So companies will stop lying in the sizing charts, right? Right?
If the sizing chart says size M fits a 28” waist and the size M is actually 32” in the waist, their lying ass should pay the return shipping.
Mankind will die out before vanity sizes do.
I’d argue that in those cases the product is straight-up defective. I mean it was falsely advertised. Expecting me to pay returns in that case is absurd.
if it’s a cheap brand it’s possible that their supplier made them incorrectly and they don’t even know about it or they don’t care enough to throw the product away
or they don’t care
It’s usually that.
Design ease and wearing ease are necessary for garments. That said, at least 1-1.5 " in the waistband is the average for wearing ease. Also that depends on where the waistband is designed to sit on the body. Low rise jeans have a larger waistband than high rise jeans just by nature of where the band sits. This has a lot to do with the fact ready-to-wear clothing sucks at fitting the diverse range of bodies out there.
I will continue to only deal with companies that offer free returns.
an understandable personal policy, but a lot of small businesses can’t compete with these companies. my margins are thin and my products are expensive, so if I accept a return from a customer i am losing money. the cost of producing the item that got returned is not recuperated it’s just gone.
I am not sure what to advise. It isn’t personal.
I just think it’s something interesting to think about. there’s a lot of things that gigantic companies do in order to eat small business that can’t afford to.
Make sure you are doing a better job with item descriptions than them.
I only deal with garment retailers that do free returns including free shipping. They omit exact measurements (sleeve, shoulder, chest, waist, body, close up shots of fabric etc) so I order several sizes and keep the ones that fit.
Some are really good at it and I never have to return anything (e.g., Asket)
To be clear, what’s under discussion is free shipping on returns. And fine, whatever. It will be annoying, but if the price of returning in the same packaging is known at purchase time, I’ll survive and adjust my shopping with that vendor as necessary.
If free shipping on returns disappears, I won’t shop online anymore
Easier said than done for a lot of folks. Online shopping put a lot of malls and other stores out of business. Good luck finding clothes anywhere but Walmart and the Internet.
At least the malls in my city seem thriving. A massive number of clothing stores especially. It’s hard to picture clothing stores having issues since being able to try them on is still more convenient than free returns. And all those clothing stores have survived decades of extreme competition, since any given mall has a dozen to two dozen stores that often feel near identical.
I can see this being true for small towns maybe, but I do most of my clothes shopping in stores anyway. Most of my online shopping is electronics
The thing I’m most likely to stop buying online without free returns would be clothing. Online clothing retailers should 100% know that a purchase is never final until the person gets it and tries it on. It’s too common to have to send items back for fit - I’d just start going to the store and trying it on there again instead of paying for each return.
I do buy some items without free returns but I will NEVER buy things like clothes or shoes without free returns or an option to take them to a physical store for free.
There is a reason that brick and mortar stores have changing rooms.
Likewise, there is a reason that, back in the day, mail-order clothing companies like L.L. Bean had ridiculously good return policies. They wouldn’t have gotten any business without them.
Exactly. It would be more acceptable to have paid returns if 1)clothing photos and descriptions were more accurate and 2) if sizing was consistent within and across brands.
But I should not get punished because your company wants to make your size 6 in the measurements of a typical 10 so that you can inflate egos and sell more stuff.
I feel your initial points, but even so… Half an inch on seams can be the difference between comfort or “I need to only eat salads for breakfast” which ain’t no way to live
Not in the EU it’s not. It’s law here.
No, it’s not. You have the right to return it (Dutch: herroepingsrecht) but the cost of returning can be at the expense of the buyer when stated on their webshop. Check their ToS
Okay yes if we are talking about shipping then that’s true.
The article and the referred articles are about the return shipping fee, not about handling and so. For example, fashion retailer H&M are beginning to charge European countries too, perfectly fine with the law :)
Before the EU law, in Czechia where I live, most places wouldn’t take a return at all. Most brick and mortar retailers still won’t. So for me it was a big step up to be able to return at all. Losing a few bucks on shipping is small compared to having to keep a whole product you don’t want. It’s one of the big reasons I buy almost nothing from brick and mortar stores any more.
Where consumers and employees have rights.
Returns are really bad you guys. Independent research from this federation shows it’s like… 800 billions. That’s a scary number, right?
Scooby Doo mask reveal.
63% of consumers said they order multiple sizes or versions of the same item, with the intention of returning what they don’t want, according to Narvar.
Holy fucking shit. The degree of waste is astonishing. I can’t believe this number is so high. Fuck everyone who does this.
But that’s what happens when you make your clothes to sizes that have no relation to the bodies that go in them. Especially for women. What the fuck is a 12?
When I go to a shop, I try on maybe ten pairs of shoes that are all my size before I find a pair that fit my feet and I can actually walk in.
There’s no waste there, it’s like one extra journey to your house when you buy something, no matter how many things you’re sending back. The real waste is when the shop just throw it away because it’s cheap shit not worth processing back into stock.
If it’s such a hassle, maybe don’t sell clothes online. Put it back in the high street where it belongs.
I’m a guy and bought various kinds of 32x32 jeans from Old Navy. None of them fit the same. Some were too tight, some needed a belt, some fit perfectly. If a company can’t even have consistency there is no hope for it in an entire industry.
That sounds like more effort than just going to the fucking store.
Or better yet a thrift store. There is for a massive surplus of clothes and even Goodwill’s have brand new brand name clothes for a few bucks, all over the place.
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Maybe where you live. Every thrift store within a 20 mile radius of me rarely has anything in my size. And even more rare anything brand new brand name at all. Haha maybe cheaper, but our thrift stores haven’t been as cheap as they used to be before Macklemore.
Usually I go to a store to try on sizes then order the size I need.
Okay. We need to get clarity here – if a product is being returned because it just wasn’t compatible with the purpose I had in mind? Like pants that don’t fit? By all means, charge me for return.
But if the product is defective? No, you pay for that. You sent me garbage, you owe me 100% money back.
We don’t have this issue in Cyprus. Here there is no such thing as a return. Once you’ve given them your money they aren’t giving it back. Even if the item is faulty, they’ll just send it for repair or blame you.
But you are definitely not getting your money back.
Dang. You can’t review bomb them or something?
No. It’s literally ALL shops. Cypriots don’t like to give back money
Sounds like y’all just don’t have consumer protection laws at all.
Nope. Not in Greek countries. Lol. I’m not even native. I’m married to a Cypriot so it takes some getting used to.
When you buy something you better be sure you want it and it meets your needs because you’rev stuck with it.
The end of everything for one dollar shops at the border haha
ITT too cool Europeans not reading the article, not realizing they have it worse than Americans lol.
Most returns go right to the dump. We try to refurbish ours but even that is a huge cost that isn’t always advantageous to businesses. Adding a cost to it will reduce waste and unnecessary purchases which is good for everyone and the environment.
Free returns is great insulation against broken products.
In my experience having to pay 15% of the purchase price just to return something that arrived broken definitely prevented any unnecessary purchases from that company in the future.
That’s why the warranty exists. If something arrives broken then the company hasn’t actually fulfilled their obligation of sending you the product you ordered in the first place, but that doesn’t mean a refund, but a replacement product. It also circumvents any “we’ll give a refund but not for the shipping cost” or “we send the replacement but you have to cover the shipping” bullshit - they didn’t send what you ordered, it’s their responsibility to fix it until you have it working on your hands.
I didn’t see it on the article, but I would expect that returns/replacements for broken, defective, or misleading items will still be free. I’m guessing the problem is people using free returns when buyers remorse kicks in.
I wouldn’t count on it. I have already had to pay return shipping on several items this year from Amazon that arrived either broken or were the wrong version of the item (seller error). These items were “Fulfilled by Seller” items, which means the seller shipped them instead of an Amazon warehouse. There was no way for me to know they would charge me return shipping if the item was broken or incorrect.
Upon setting up the return on Amazon, I then learn I must pay for shipping even though the issue was not my fault. Some of the items I just had to eat the loss on because shipping is expensive as hell for individuals. I was surprised Amazon allowed companies to get away with this. But now I know why.
From my experience selling on Amazon, I can tell you that Amazon would 100% refund you and side with you over the seller. Amazon sellers aren’t allowed to do what you are describing at all. I moved to selling on eBay more because there were a million returns on Amazon, and you were obligated to process all of them.
Amazon’s return dialogue was the one that told me to pay the shipping on the broken or not-as-described items. It did this after I entered the return reasons from the drop-down options. This is fully supported and facilitated by Amazon.
It may not be that way for all seller-fulfilled items, and this may be new this year, but Amazon’s own system is the one giving these directions (to pay for return shipping) after it is aware of the return reason.
Oh yeah. Dark patterns abound on Amazon. It’s really not shocking that an honest person would have trouble making it through their customer support maze.
If the seller doesn’t make it easy, the buyer might need to talk a human at Amazon and/or file an A2Z guarantee claim or whatever they are called these days to get a full refund.
The system is setup to save Amazon as much money as possible and push people to being Prime members. Unhappy with the third party seller scamming you? You should bought a Prime subscription and only purchase things fulfilled by Amazon. /s
P.s. Sometimes the easiest option is literally to call Amazon. They do have a number (in the US at least), but it can be super hard to find on the site. 1-888-280-4331
If that’s the case, I imagine they’ll suddenly see an uptick of destroyed merchandise coming back. Seems counterproductive because then there’s no way to resell it.
I don’t know a single company that will charge you for a return if you receive something broken. It just doesn’t happen. 95% of our returns are buyer’s remorse or they didn’t research their needs better. Easier just to buy and return then to do the work.
I’ve had it happen.
Even on Amazon I’ve had vendors not want to refund money for broken items without me shipping back at my cost.
I’ve never paid for it, if push comes to shove I’d dispute it with Amazon and my credit card company.
I paid for a delivered functional product.
Those companies don’t last there, believe me. I’ve been on Amz since they opened to 3rd party sellers and we are a top 500 seller. Literally for any reason we send out replacements or parts because that’s how your company succeeds. What I was talking about is the people who abuse the process and there are a lot of them. One warehouse can throw away over 100,000 items a week and there are 100s of warehouses in the US. It’s a collosal amount of waste mainly because returns are risk free to the customer.
Glide Gear. Glide Gear will charge you to return faulty merchandise. There. Now you know one.
I bought a frame online from Michaels that arrived broken. I drove to the store, rather than pay to ship it back, and they said they would refund me the price of the frame, but not the shipping I paid for originally. It took a manager (15 minute wait) and many minutes of me insisting I shouldn’t have to pay anything for a broken product for them to finally just give up and swipe the card that allowed them to refund my shipping (only as store credit, mind you). They were not happy about it.
They used to, but not anymore. Amazon Warehouse exists as a seller for a reason.
