You know, if you use Linux you don’t have to jump through hoops like this (trivial though they may be). Wouldn’t it be nice to not have an adversarial, abusive relationship with your OS?
the annoying stereotype of vegans pushing their diet
Also, vegans actually do something good for the planet so thank your neighborly vegan next time instead of telling them a story about how you once met someone who was really pushy about veganism.
Tbf yes. They do something good for the planet. But I wouldn’t say choosing a different OS isn’t good for the planet either. First, you aren’t supporting companies that will burn this planet down without a second thought for a few million dollars. Secondly there are a few things on Linux made to use less electricity than Windows AND the fact it can run on older computers just fine means that there is less of a need for constantly upgrading this creating less computer waste. (Which something I and many others advocate for and a very solid reason to use Linux) but also merely for the fact that it is by far more ethical in a multitude of ways…
Wouldn’t it be nice to not have an adversarial, abusive relationship with your OS?
The whole point of computers, as far as I can tell, is to be that abusive relationship we never could perfect with humans. Linux is no exception, it’s just more passive-aggressive and better with gaslighting.
“You see, if only you’d installed this dependency, which I showed you so clearly in the error logs all along - and I categorised them so nicely - but you never like to look there, do you? - I mean, I understand, and that’s why I mentioned it - not too strongly, because I didn’t want to upset you more - in the terminal output…”
Most Linux developers don’t include anti-features on purpose, but Windows developers do.
I think dependencies have gotten simpler on Linux with flatpak. The fact that the command-line is still sometimes needed on Linux is just a fact of life. Nobody is forcing users to use it out of any sort of passive-aggressive distain for users, but just that it takes less time out of volunteer developers’ schedules to buold command-line tools.
I think one thing to note in the CLI-GUI debate though is that Windows pushed hard against CLI interfaces from day 1. Even starting with Windows 3, there were a lot of things you couldn’t do with CLI easily, while Unix has always had full CLI support. Users being unfamiliar with CLI interfaces is a symptom of Windows dominance.
I mean it’s so logical, I have real troubles figuring out why so many people don’t get it.
You can’t immediately see what options you have in a command line.
In a UI, you see the “menu” button right there.
If you have no idea about anything, in a UI, you can still click on the menu button, and are presented with more options.
In a command line, if you have absolutely no clue, what do you need to do? Honestly, you have to ask someone who knows (be it a friend, a manual, or web search). You can randomly start typing or press keys, but the chance to get to something useful is very low.
Why do people always assume GNU+Linux relies on a command line these days!? That’s like saying Windows does… I.e. it’s not true. Maybe if you go back to the Win9x and DOS days.
I swear, if you’re going to complain about possibly the only OS that fully respects users and their freedom, how about you actually use it first and understand it’s GUI mechanisms before spouting nonsense.
Windows is dominant because of extreme anti-competitive and other nasty practices in the past. The reason it’s still dominant is because it has locked itself into it’s dominant position since people are used to it (they still do many nasty practices today, as well)
Package managers have become so much better with dependencies. It’s been a while since I’ve encountered an issue, with yay it very usually works out of the box.
Agreed. Though I do have recent experiences of dependency troubles. I really should get better at reporting them to the proper channels, but by the time I’ve worked out how to fix, I usually don’t have the energy left… 😕
You realize that 16 means 2016, right? That’s almost 8 years ago. And even as someone who uses Linux I don’t like Ubuntu. I highly recommend trying Mint, Fedora, or EndeavourOS (Arch)
There’s a difference between feeling abused from intentional mistreatment and then there’s frustration from miscommunication or inadequacy from either partner.
Listen, I probably one of the most hardcore linux propagandists out there, which spells disaster when I confess I’m anything but a tech guru, but even I am aware some people are too off the deep end to swim back and move to another OS.
Windows is locked in a dominant position and regardless how bad their solutions are in fact, not enough tech/privacy aware high level managers exist to push windows off the corporate shelf.
The alternative is to spread Linux and FOSS to kids and incentivize the use and exploring of technology because it is simply fun to do it, not shotgun proseletize and hope something sticks.
Your intention is good but the method, which I often use as well, needs a lot of refining.
And if you use Linux you have to jump through hoops to install (non-steam) games. I know, just yesterday I had to search a working tutorial for installing Fall Guys.
As a user who bought FG on steam, I had ZERO issues whatsoever getting this to run on my Walmart laptop. This is an Epic issue. Fuck Epic. Ran Fall Guys into the ground before laying off basically all of its creative team. It’s just a grind now…
Anyone who makes a stand to defend Linux as a gaming platform over Windows is righteously impractical at best, and a principled idiot at worst. It’s simply not there yet.
I’ve spent countless hours playing a game called Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI with PUK, which comes with its own DRM (non-Steam). Despite its availability on Steam, I’m hesitant to buy it again for the same experience, especially since it doesn’t run on Linux.
Another game I enjoy, Dead by Daylight on Steam, consistently runs into issues such as severe memory leaks, unresponsive spacebar after alt-tabbing, random freezes, and occasional stutters no matter what troubleshooting I attempt.
Lastly, my wife and I frequently play Fall Guys. While it’s mostly audio-related, there are occasional random disconnects that never happen on Windows, which can be frustrating for a game meant for casual enjoyment
Linux not being able to launch a game (that probably was not made for it) is not a relationship issue but a technical one.
Even if it is possible to run the game but you need to hack around your distro’s configurations, you can be certain the default configuration was not made with the specific intent of preventing you from running the game.
In the Windows case you are not hacking around with the json file to solve a technical issue.
Windows is not misconfigured, it’s Microsoft’s explicit decision to prevent you from removing some of it’s software even if it’s forced by law to do so for other people.
It’s ok if you don’t mind Microsoft’s behavior or you just find Linux’s technical issues more important in choosing an OS. But the issues are not similar neither equivalent.
Or maybe the one that I had to reinstall every other month because it kept failing to boot (probably because I broke something because I had no clue what I was doing and trying to get stuff working).
This doesn’t make any sense. Drivers only get loaded if a device matching the correct device ID is plugged in. So a wrong driver won’t, can’t, load. So why would you need to rollback?
If you don’t have the correct drivers, it’ll still work, just poorly. And from there you can get the correct ones.
I admit Nvidia software is horrible, mainly because it’s proprietary and refuses to be nicely integrated. I’m not surprised they broke it. If only they’d at least release full documentation and then we could write good drivers for them.
The nouveau drivers don’t break, and are free as in freedom, but they don’t support “reclocking” for any of the RTX cards, so they’re stuck running at a lower speed. I think the 10-series got support though so they should run fine under it.
AMD support is a lot better than proprietary Nvidia, but it has it’s own freedom pitfalls (functionally, it’s fine on most distros).
Nvidia drivers are definitely an outlier in GNU+Linux, most drivers are free and so they integrate very nicely with the rest of the system and don’t randomly break.
These people are another barrier on the road to Linux adoption. I personally had an issue with Void Linux, a systemd free distro whose manual is seriously lacking and lots of what is in Arch Wiki may not apply there. I went to their support server, detailed my problem and said that I had done what their manual said. The first response, I get is read the manual when it is just a page long(for the specific issue I was facing).
Ultimately, it was boiling down to a wrong flag attached to the command that was listed on the official website that was not solving my problem.
Support forums kind of suck all over. I’d imagine the systemd free distros are more elitest than the norm.
Also jeeze, just meming on the internet, no need to “Those people” me sheesh.
You don’t need skills to use GNU+Linux, in the same way you don’t need skills to use Windows.
It has different ways of doing things which needs to be learned, but that also applies the other way around. I’ve not touched Windows in years, and so it’d be quite an unfamiliar environment and I’d need to learn a new way to do things. That doesn’t mean it’s bad (it is, but for other reasons).
Tl;Dr just because you’re not familiar with something doesn’t make it bad or inferior
This is very true. There is a difference between being bad at using software, and software being bad. Linux just has an intrinsically bad desktop design.
It’s not Linux or Windows. For example Gaming and everyday Tasks I use Windows because Games I play run much better on Windows and I like to use it more. But for things like programming I will use Linux. I’m just beginning learning to code but I already made the painful experience of trying to get compiler, debugger etc. running on windows.
Linux and Windows are Tools. You can’t use a Hammer for every Taks, sometimes you need a Screwdriver.
Some tools are easy to repair but some tools detect if replaced parts are not from the manufacturer and refuse to work, or even require a subscription. You may say you really need a “screwdriver” but that doesn’t negate the criticism it requires being shoved up your fucking ass to work.
I believe proprietary software gives unjust power to the creators/owners over the users and that most people being taken advantage of is detrimental to a free society.
Ableton Live and plugins don’t work on Linux, and I’d rather run it on my own build, so I have to use Windows. That’s also the machine I game on. Everything else is Debian.
You know, if you use Linux you don’t have to jump through hoops like this (trivial though they may be). Wouldn’t it be nice to not have an adversarial, abusive relationship with your OS?
Some of you sound like the annoying stereotype of vegans pushing their diet lifestyle.
Also, vegans actually do something good for the planet so thank your neighborly vegan next time instead of telling them a story about how you once met someone who was really pushy about veganism.
What the heck is that image
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survivorship_bias
“Why do gay people always act flamboyant?”
“Why do vegans always push their lifestyle?”
Because you don’t see the ones that don’t
Tbf yes. They do something good for the planet. But I wouldn’t say choosing a different OS isn’t good for the planet either. First, you aren’t supporting companies that will burn this planet down without a second thought for a few million dollars. Secondly there are a few things on Linux made to use less electricity than Windows AND the fact it can run on older computers just fine means that there is less of a need for constantly upgrading this creating less computer waste. (Which something I and many others advocate for and a very solid reason to use Linux) but also merely for the fact that it is by far more ethical in a multitude of ways…
The whole point of computers, as far as I can tell, is to be that abusive relationship we never could perfect with humans. Linux is no exception, it’s just more passive-aggressive and better with gaslighting.
“You see, if only you’d installed this dependency, which I showed you so clearly in the error logs all along - and I categorised them so nicely - but you never like to look there, do you? - I mean, I understand, and that’s why I mentioned it - not too strongly, because I didn’t want to upset you more - in the terminal output…”
Most Linux developers don’t include anti-features on purpose, but Windows developers do.
I think dependencies have gotten simpler on Linux with flatpak. The fact that the command-line is still sometimes needed on Linux is just a fact of life. Nobody is forcing users to use it out of any sort of passive-aggressive distain for users, but just that it takes less time out of volunteer developers’ schedules to buold command-line tools.
I think one thing to note in the CLI-GUI debate though is that Windows pushed hard against CLI interfaces from day 1. Even starting with Windows 3, there were a lot of things you couldn’t do with CLI easily, while Unix has always had full CLI support. Users being unfamiliar with CLI interfaces is a symptom of Windows dominance.
Or Windows dominance is a symptom of the average computer user struggling with a cli
I mean it’s so logical, I have real troubles figuring out why so many people don’t get it.
You can’t immediately see what options you have in a command line.
In a UI, you see the “menu” button right there.
If you have no idea about anything, in a UI, you can still click on the menu button, and are presented with more options.
In a command line, if you have absolutely no clue, what do you need to do? Honestly, you have to ask someone who knows (be it a friend, a manual, or web search). You can randomly start typing or press keys, but the chance to get to something useful is very low.
Why do people always assume GNU+Linux relies on a command line these days!? That’s like saying Windows does… I.e. it’s not true. Maybe if you go back to the Win9x and DOS days.
I swear, if you’re going to complain about possibly the only OS that fully respects users and their freedom, how about you actually use it first and understand it’s GUI mechanisms before spouting nonsense.
Windows is dominant because of extreme anti-competitive and other nasty practices in the past. The reason it’s still dominant is because it has locked itself into it’s dominant position since people are used to it (they still do many nasty practices today, as well)
I don’t think you’ve seen the number of power user articles these days that give you two options :
Lmao I forgot about the registry. I was never a Windows power user.
It’s was definitely one of those “seemed like a good idea at the time” kinda things, but now they’ve realised they’ve created a monster.
I use command line by choice on Linux, but find myself forced to use PowerShell to make a windows installation that is somewhat bearable.
Yeah, I don’t mean from the devs - though part of the community can be a bit like that sometimes. But the computer itself…
I may have been anthropomorphizing, with a touch of experience-induced poetic imagination.
Package managers have become so much better with dependencies. It’s been a while since I’ve encountered an issue, with yay it very usually works out of the box.
Agreed. Though I do have recent experiences of dependency troubles. I really should get better at reporting them to the proper channels, but by the time I’ve worked out how to fix, I usually don’t have the energy left… 😕
My stint with Ubuntu… 16? Did not end well.
You realize that 16 means 2016, right? That’s almost 8 years ago. And even as someone who uses Linux I don’t like Ubuntu. I highly recommend trying Mint, Fedora, or EndeavourOS (Arch)
There’s a difference between feeling abused from intentional mistreatment and then there’s frustration from miscommunication or inadequacy from either partner.
Listen, I probably one of the most hardcore linux propagandists out there, which spells disaster when I confess I’m anything but a tech guru, but even I am aware some people are too off the deep end to swim back and move to another OS.
Windows is locked in a dominant position and regardless how bad their solutions are in fact, not enough tech/privacy aware high level managers exist to push windows off the corporate shelf.
The alternative is to spread Linux and FOSS to kids and incentivize the use and exploring of technology because it is simply fun to do it, not shotgun proseletize and hope something sticks.
Your intention is good but the method, which I often use as well, needs a lot of refining.
And if you use Linux you have to jump through hoops to install (non-steam) games. I know, just yesterday I had to search a working tutorial for installing Fall Guys.
BTW for anyone needing help in the future, this worked: https://youtu.be/X41PlQNx0vk
As a user who bought FG on steam, I had ZERO issues whatsoever getting this to run on my Walmart laptop. This is an Epic issue. Fuck Epic. Ran Fall Guys into the ground before laying off basically all of its creative team. It’s just a grind now…
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/X41PlQNx0vk
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Anyone who makes a stand to defend Linux as a gaming platform over Windows is righteously impractical at best, and a principled idiot at worst. It’s simply not there yet.
In that same Linux I had to rack my brain and still failed to launch the game I want.
You mean like that relationship?
Sure Linux has its own pros, but not what I need.
Are you using Steam? What game isn’t compatible with Linux and/or requires significant user effort to run?
I’ve spent countless hours playing a game called Romance of the Three Kingdoms XI with PUK, which comes with its own DRM (non-Steam). Despite its availability on Steam, I’m hesitant to buy it again for the same experience, especially since it doesn’t run on Linux.
Another game I enjoy, Dead by Daylight on Steam, consistently runs into issues such as severe memory leaks, unresponsive spacebar after alt-tabbing, random freezes, and occasional stutters no matter what troubleshooting I attempt.
Lastly, my wife and I frequently play Fall Guys. While it’s mostly audio-related, there are occasional random disconnects that never happen on Windows, which can be frustrating for a game meant for casual enjoyment
Doesn’t work with older videos cards.
On Steam 60 000 games of the 70 000 are not compatible with Linux.
Linux not being able to launch a game (that probably was not made for it) is not a relationship issue but a technical one.
Even if it is possible to run the game but you need to hack around your distro’s configurations, you can be certain the default configuration was not made with the specific intent of preventing you from running the game.
In the Windows case you are not hacking around with the json file to solve a technical issue.
Windows is not misconfigured, it’s Microsoft’s explicit decision to prevent you from removing some of it’s software even if it’s forced by law to do so for other people.
It’s ok if you don’t mind Microsoft’s behavior or you just find Linux’s technical issues more important in choosing an OS. But the issues are not similar neither equivalent.
Or maybe the one that I had to reinstall every other month because it kept failing to boot (probably because I broke something because I had no clue what I was doing and trying to get stuff working).
Or maybe the one that I had to learn how rollback graphics drivers because I bought wrong brand of graphics card.
This doesn’t make any sense. Drivers only get loaded if a device matching the correct device ID is plugged in. So a wrong driver won’t, can’t, load. So why would you need to rollback?
If you don’t have the correct drivers, it’ll still work, just poorly. And from there you can get the correct ones.
Maybe wrong terminology? Or hopefully not an issue.
Nvida released a new driver. The driver crashed my Linux every time put on load. Had to uninstall with command line. Install old instead.
With the replays on how that common with Linux and how I should brought amd. I assumed was Common frustration with new nvidia.
Oh. Nvidia. Right.
I admit Nvidia software is horrible, mainly because it’s proprietary and refuses to be nicely integrated. I’m not surprised they broke it. If only they’d at least release full documentation and then we could write good drivers for them.
The nouveau drivers don’t break, and are free as in freedom, but they don’t support “reclocking” for any of the RTX cards, so they’re stuck running at a lower speed. I think the 10-series got support though so they should run fine under it.
AMD support is a lot better than proprietary Nvidia, but it has it’s own freedom pitfalls (functionally, it’s fine on most distros).
Nvidia drivers are definitely an outlier in GNU+Linux, most drivers are free and so they integrate very nicely with the rest of the system and don’t randomly break.
Skill issue
Says linux elitist.
These people are another barrier on the road to Linux adoption. I personally had an issue with Void Linux, a systemd free distro whose manual is seriously lacking and lots of what is in Arch Wiki may not apply there. I went to their support server, detailed my problem and said that I had done what their manual said. The first response, I get is read the manual when it is just a page long(for the specific issue I was facing).
Ultimately, it was boiling down to a wrong flag attached to the command that was listed on the official website that was not solving my problem.
Support forums kind of suck all over. I’d imagine the systemd free distros are more elitest than the norm. Also jeeze, just meming on the internet, no need to “Those people” me sheesh.
Bruh, computers are tools to accomplish a task, if you wanna obsess over jack shit, then stare at the toilet, dont gatekeep a hobby.
Pick the tool without ads in your way then lol I’m not gatekeeping, simply saying get gud
Bruh, saying “get gud” to someone incapable of doing so doesn’t make you cool, it makes you an unempathetic asshole, and a bad software developer.
Whoa posting that comment made me a software developer?
If you need skills in order to use an OS, then that is a bad OS.
You don’t need skills to use GNU+Linux, in the same way you don’t need skills to use Windows.
It has different ways of doing things which needs to be learned, but that also applies the other way around. I’ve not touched Windows in years, and so it’d be quite an unfamiliar environment and I’d need to learn a new way to do things. That doesn’t mean it’s bad (it is, but for other reasons).
Tl;Dr just because you’re not familiar with something doesn’t make it bad or inferior
This is very true. There is a difference between being bad at using software, and software being bad. Linux just has an intrinsically bad desktop design.
It’s not Linux or Windows. For example Gaming and everyday Tasks I use Windows because Games I play run much better on Windows and I like to use it more. But for things like programming I will use Linux. I’m just beginning learning to code but I already made the painful experience of trying to get compiler, debugger etc. running on windows.
Linux and Windows are Tools. You can’t use a Hammer for every Taks, sometimes you need a Screwdriver.
Some tools are easy to repair but some tools detect if replaced parts are not from the manufacturer and refuse to work, or even require a subscription. You may say you really need a “screwdriver” but that doesn’t negate the criticism it requires being shoved up your fucking ass to work.
Bruh. In which Industry do you work? Don’t act like using Windows/Linux is causing you physical Pain.
I believe proprietary software gives unjust power to the creators/owners over the users and that most people being taken advantage of is detrimental to a free society.
Ableton Live and plugins don’t work on Linux, and I’d rather run it on my own build, so I have to use Windows. That’s also the machine I game on. Everything else is Debian.
You could try Bitwig. I have a friend that prefers it over Ableton even on Windows. And Windows-only VSTs work with Yabridge
Yeah, let me know when Revit, Civil 3D, ArcGIS, OpenRoads Designer are operable and supported on Linux.
Yes, should escape from using Windows if can. But this is just news, why automatically there must be a comment like that?