This is a serious question, mostly addressed to the adult women among us but also to anyone else who has a stake in the matter.

What did your father do for you/not do for you, that you needed?

Context: I have recently become a father to a daughter, with a mother whose father was not around when she was growing up. I won’t bore you all with the details but our daughter is here now and I am realising that I’m the only one in our little family who has really had a father before. But I have never been a girl. And I know that as a boy, my relationships with my mother and father were massively influential and powerful but at the same time radically different to each other. People say that daughters and fathers have a unique relationship too.

Question: What was your father to you? What matters the most when it comes to a father making his daughter loved, safe, confident and free? To live a good life as an adult?

I’d like this to be a mature, personal and real discussion about daughters and fathers, rather than a political thing, so I humbly ask to please speak from the heart and not the head on this one :)

Thank you

P.S Apologies if this question is badly written or conceived; I haven’t been getting enough sleep! It is what it is!

  • red_rising@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    This thread already has so much great advice that it made me a bit teary eyed reading it. I don’t know if I can contribute much but I’ll try.

    • 90% of parenting is just showing up. Your physical, mental, and emotional presents will mean far more to them than anything else. That’s what will make them feel valued and loved.
    • Fuck gender norms. Regardless of if your child wants to learn to sew, fix engines, or both, embrace it, encourage them, and be there with them every step of the way.
    • They don’t really have any perspective on things so small things to you are huge things to them. Don’t just dismiss their feelings.
    • like everyone else said, listen to them. Like really listen every time.
    • Don’t over think it. If you’re asking these questions, your head and heart are already in the right place. Trust yourself.
    • akakunai@lemmy.ca
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      2 months ago

      Yeah, last point is very true. I can already tell this girl is gonna have a good father regardless if he applies anything from this thread or not, given he cares enough and has the humility to ask.

      • red_rising@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        I totally agree. It makes me so happy to see this new generation that’s completely redefining what fatherhood looks like.

    • Churbleyimyam@lemm.eeOP
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      2 months ago

      Thanks so much for your comment - it’s given me confidence, compassion and some peace too :) It’s taken me nearly a week to read everyone’s replies and over that time it has made me feel quite emotional too. We all have so much love and goodness that we want to make happen the world. I’m eally glad I made this post.

  • FollyDolly@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Don’t be afriad to involve her in your stuff, even if it’s boy stuff. My dad taught me how to fix cars, wilderness survival, how to shoot guns, how to fix stuff, it didn’t matter that I was a girl, if I was interested he’d show me. I didn’t care that this was boy stuff, I just liked that I was helping dad.

    With the bonus payoff of me being a rather handy cabable adult too! Although he did his fair share of playing Barbie and tea party as well.

    She might not like all of your hobbies (I never liked fishing) but give it a shot! Don’t be afraid just bc some stuck up parents would be agast she’s learning to change the oil in the car.

  • derivatives_are_hard@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Hope this is okay to respond but as a father to an adult daughter I have thought about this a lot. Our daughter is married, empathetic, and simply a nice person (also a productive member of society) and I think some of that has to do with how I made a concerted effort to make sure my relationship with her mother (my wife) was healthy. I treated my wife how I wanted my daughter to be treated, with respect, dignity, love, kindness, humor. All of those ways we want to be treated ourselves.

    It wasn’t all roses though for sure. Sometimes it was hard and we fought like normal couples do and all that but we worked to get on the other side of those times. I made (wife did too) an effort to not carry contempt toward one another for too long. Limit the smart ass comments. No name calling ever. Try not to let contempt be in the tone of our voicees when we were fighting. We had or developed over time some ground rules for our marriage that engendered respect even when we were pissed or hurt and stuff. I think ensuring our kids saw that people can be humble, admit wrong, apologize, and then move on trying to be better sinks in.

    It seems perhaps corny and maybe weird but I stuck with it and she grew up to be a great person. Sure she’s got her flaws and her challenges but she is a really good person at heart, and has a great relationship with her husband and with us. She’s tender toward animals and and toward genuine people and, maybe most importantly, she doesn’t play the victim. It’s neat to see. I like to think some of that is because I worked hard to be a good father figure. But I the eve of mother’s day in the US it’s also important to admit that her mom played a critical role as well.

    So congrats on being a father. Yes, it is a weird and magical bond between my daughter and I. I think what she was looking for in her committed relationships was rooted in how her mom and I communicated and how she witnessed our relationship as she grew up.

      • derivatives_are_hard@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        It sounds more formal than I suppose it really was I think. But, a few things were kind of baseline assumptions we worked from. No name calling or snide insults in a hurtful manner. That seemed to be a really core value. We allowed apologies when they were needed after an argument and we allowed them without any eye rolling or derision. We tried to go to bed without contempt…certainly we could be irritated, maybe angry but that didn’t mean we didn’t like each other so it was a sort of neutral ground, in a way?

        Trying to explain it seems so contrived and cringe but in my head, and believe in hers as well, we had some idea from our parents what we should try to avoid and that was our starting point. Our parents provided a model of what not to have in a marriage and so we talked a lot about that, especially when we first met.

        Also, no TV in the bedroom. Ever.

        These are still the set of guidelines we follow now. Even without the pressure of children.

  • AnalogyAddict@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    My dad is arguably not the best dad in many ways, but he taught me a solid work ethic, and most importantly, called 911 when I was attacked by my husband. The best thing a dad can do is teach his daughter how she should be treated by men.

  • bradorsomething@ttrpg.network
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    2 months ago

    Hey, I have some simple advice, dad to dad. She’s going to start by copying everything you do, and you need to involve her, and make her feel involved, in those things so she learns them. Especially encourage that in doing the chores together and eating vegetables together.

    As she gets older, the temptation to continue to guide her in directions you know will be fierce. But you need to help her explore things you don’t know, and tell her “I don’t know this, but what do you need to learn about it so I can help.”

    • Churbleyimyam@lemm.eeOP
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      2 months ago

      Thanks so much for your advice. Listening has come a lot in this discussion and I wasn’t expecting it… Why is that? is it because listening shows a daughter that she matters?

      • roofuskit@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Everyone needs to feel heard. You won’t always be able to solve all their problems. But you can make them feel heard. And often that’s more important.

      • frickineh@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        I’ll add to what others have said about listening, don’t assume she wants you to solve every problem. My dad used to do that and it drove me crazy, especially when he’d point out out like it was so obvious. I often already knew the solution, but sometimes I didn’t like it or just wanted to vent before moving forward. I think it’s good for most relationships to ask, “do you want advice or is this just to get it off your chest,” before responding, not just with daughters, but I’ve noticed dads are particularly prone to wanting to fix the thing.

        • Railing5132@lemmy.world
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          2 months ago

          I think our lizard brain jumps to the fore and want to be like: “unga-bunga - problem! Me can fix with solution! It make tears stop!” when in reality, like you said, kids want someone they trust to give them permission to do the thing they know they need to do. They need to know they can come to you and be open and safe and loved.

          • Churbleyimyam@lemm.eeOP
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            2 months ago

            Yeah, it’s like that as an adult too. Pretty much everything feels better when there is a sense of compassion and empathy but not always the case with solutions. It makes me think that in general as humans we are much more concerned with each other than we are with the world. Or even ourselves, perhaps.

      • red_rising@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        You won’t always know what’s wrong with your daughter or what she needs but if you listen to her, like really listen, she will tell you which is so much more important.

        In the long term, her being about to tell you things will make her feel safe and validated, it will strengthen your bond with each other, and it will help her develop the emotional intelligence to express herself in a healthy way that so many kids are missing these days. It’s win win win.

      • lennybird@lemmy.world
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        2 months ago

        Being a parent is like one part being a therapist, one part being the fence to the boundaries of exploration, and one part being The Doctor or some superhero in your child’s eyes capable of making magic and excitement happen. Fucking incredible, honestly.

        • Churbleyimyam@lemm.eeOP
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          2 months ago

          What a great way of describing it. And what an absolute honour and privilege to be that for someone!

  • Devi@kbin.social
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    2 months ago

    My dad never spent time with me because we didn’t share hobbies, I tried desperately as a kid to get into what he liked, but he never tried to get into what I liked. My mom knew the names of the kids on Barney, what snacks cheered me up, or what friends I had in school, my dad also lived in the house.

    As adults we’ve found common ground in politics and TV, and we have a relationship now, but we’d have a much better relationship if he’d tried to hang out with me back then.

    So I guess my advice is just hang out with her, whatever form that takes. Time is so important.

  • grasshopper_mouse@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    From a woman who’s father failed in many ways: Be present, be willing to listen, and actually give a damn. My father wasn’t any of those things when I was growing up, he just sorta came and went as he pleased and if he cared, he sure didn’t show it. I went NC with him from my teens until my 30s, and we now have a semi-decent relationship, but man, I will be forever jealous of those “Daddy’s girl” women who adore and admire their fathers and their fathers love them so much everyone can tell.

  • Bilbo_Haggins@lemm.ee
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    2 months ago

    Did his share of the housework. My dad didn’t know how to cook well, but you bet your butt he did laundry, vacuumed, dusted, washed dishes, whatever was needed around the house he did it. And he did cook at least once a week, although it was always stuff like grilled cheese or pancakes.

    Growing up in a household where both parents put in equal effort at home really set up the expectation for me that this is how relationships work.

    My dad was also very loving and openly affectionate to us all. He would give us hugs, tell us he loved us and how proud of us he is, even to the point of tearing up sometimes. I love that about him and see it as an admirable quality in men.

    Girls learn what to expect from men based on what they see their fathers do. Be kind, gentle, and respect your daughter and that’s the kind of men she’ll surround herself with.

  • earlgrey0@sh.itjust.works
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    2 months ago

    I apologize but this will be kind of dark. As a father I know you are going to be desperate to protect her, but don’t wax poetic about dealing violence to anyone who would do her wrong. For example, don’t talk about beating her current boyfriend/girlfriend if they cross her. Girls are going to have shitty relationships because that’s a part of growing up. Don’t make her think talking to you about them is the nuclear option when she’s still trying to figure out what is acceptable and her boundaries. If she thinks you’ll go beat the shit out of any one who looks at her funny, she might not come to you with her problems until she is willing to accept her dad going to prison for a long time. Everyone is right about listening to her, but make sure she that she knows that you can be trusted. Listen, accept her decisions, work with her, and not to fly off of the handle. Best of luck new father, since you’re asking the right questions I think you are going to be fine.

    • fiercekitten@lemm.ee
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      2 months ago

      Thank you for mentioning this. I think it’s really important and often overlooked because it’s shrugged off as “dads will be dads” behavior.

      • earlgrey0@sh.itjust.works
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        2 months ago

        I am really happy that people are willing to consider how toxic that aggression is. It’s so engrained in our culture that it’s considered normal when a father threatens to have his gun out when first meeting his daughter’s partner. Nobody really thinks about the effects of this normalized violence.

  • other_cat@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    I am a woman whose father was an abusive narcissist, the list of what I needed and didn’t get is depressing to say the least. So I’ll boil it down to its essence: Be there when needed. Remember she is her own person, not an extension of you. Try to make her life better than your own. Let your love be unconditional. It may not be helpful advice, but it’s all I got for ya.

  • lennybird@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    My wife’s father is still peddling that toxic masculinity bullshit on his grandson, saying…to our 1-year-old… To toughen it up.

    My wife about lost it on him. Now that was to our son but for our daughter it would be no different and it’s a reflection of her childhood.

    Being emotionally unattached, uncomfortable with crying, and being incapable saying sorry and admitting you’re wrong are simply massive. Kids are kids but they have a keen sense of justice and parents should empower them to stand up for themselves and be proud of them for exposing you as a hypocrite… Not beat them with a belt…

    And for goodness sake, play with your kid. She wants to play dolls? Dress you up? Paint your nails? Tea time? By god you do it! If she wants to play with army men (they make army gals, too), go for it!

  • Vanth@reddthat.com
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    2 months ago

    Treat other women / talk about other women like you want her to be treated / talked about by men.

    Respecting and partnering with your spouse teaches your daughter a model of respectful partner she can look for as an adult.

    Seeing how you treat other women, friends, strangers, service workers, teaches her how she should expect to be treated by men.

    Seeing how you treat other boys and men also teaches her a model to set her expectations around. If you treat boys and men similar to how you treat girls and women, she sees that and grows up knowing she deserves equal respect. If you treat boys/men differently, specially, with more respect, your daughter will grow up and expect to be treated as secondary by other men.

    If you see men mistreating women, you don’t have to confront them necessarily, but make sure your daughter knows what they are doing is not ok. Sometimes the world isn’t fair, but it’s still wrong and we want to be people who make the world a better place.

  • RustyShackleford@literature.cafe
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    2 months ago

    Don’t be afraid to be wrong and take accountability for your actions. I personally admired my grandpa for telling me this before his passing, there’s no shame in diligently striving for honor.

    Most importantly, fight for those who can’t fight for themselves, you might never see the results of your actions; but you’ll be able to sleep soundly at night.

  • ratofkryll@sh.itjust.works
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    2 months ago

    Dad was born in the '50s into a family I can only describe as Victorian. Very rigid gender roles, happy and angry the only acceptable male emotions, and all the “fun” stuff that comes along with that kind of upbringing. I’m in my mid-30s now. He worked a job that sent him out of town for weeks or sometimes months at a time, but where he would often have several weeks off at a time as well so he was either never around or home all the time. Mom was a stay at home mom, but that’s about the extent of the gender roles enforced while I was growing up.

    Dad and I had a fairly close relationship until I got to about 14/15 but I did learn very early that he was not the person to go to for anything emotional. He never knew how to handle emotions and - like many people of his generation - he didn’t think about the long-term effects that his offhand comments and teasing might have. As an adult, I understand that it was his way of showing affection but it’s taken me a very long time to work through the body issues I picked up because of his (and Mom’s) teasing about “the family nose/thighs/shoulders/etc.”

    We drifted apart when I got to high school. The teenage girl hormones hit really hard. He didn’t know what to do with all the feelings I was having so he either ignored them or got angry with me if they inconvenienced him. I never felt like I could talk to either of my parents about what I was going through so I withdrew into myself. Honestly, I was a pretty shitty teenager and my parents were both pretty shitty parents of teenagers (though in my defense my sister was way worse from a much younger age and never really got much better - we still don’t get along.) As I got into my twenties and calmed down, Dad continued to treat me like that hyper emotional teenager. I resented that a lot and kept him at arm’s length.

    Dad’s and my relationship is good now but it took a long time to get here. It took me accepting that he is never going to change and meeting him on his level, while asserting my own boundaries. I’ve spent a lot of time unpacking the hangups and baggage I carried with me into adulthood, which has given me the ability to get past “Dad is an asshole”. Dad was raised in an environment with a lot of gendered pressure, came out of it with severe anxiety - which you can see runs in the family if you know what to look for - and his only coping mechanism is control. When he feels out of control, he explodes. However, being a “man of a certain age” (a.k.a. Boomer) there’s no way he’ll ever develop the emotional intelligence to understand and acknowledge that. He has no incentive to and has never learned the language. I learned that if I want a relationship with him, I have to be willing to work around that so I do the work on myself and focus on what he and I have in common - which is a lot! It’s been a slow process, but I’ve also seen him finally start to acknowledge and respect me as an independent adult over the last few years and that feels pretty good.

    On the complete opposite end of the spectrum, my partner has a fantastic relationship with his 7-year-old daughter (my stepdaughter). He’s very emotionally intelligent and self-aware and has no problem talking with his kid about feelings - hers or his own. He also rejects the idea of traditional gender roles and doesn’t feel at all weird about playing dress up with her, getting his nails painted, or any of the other “girly” things she likes to do with him. Neither of us had good parental relationships modeled for us growing up (mine were distant and affectionless with each other, his were volatile) so we do our best to show his kid what a loving, respectful adult relationship looks like. I’ve often thought that I wish my dad had been a parent to me like my partner is to his daughter.

    I think the most important thing about any parent-child relationship is that the child feels supported, respected, and confident to come to their parent about how they’re feeling. That’s going to look different in any relationship, but staying empathetic and not assuming you know better than your kid about what’s going on in their mind is always a good place to start. It also helps to be self-aware. Recognize where you might have hangups or emotional baggage and be proactive about addressing it. I have done more self-work in the last two years of being a stepparent than in the previous ten. That’s not to say I didn’t also do a lot in those ten years, but my partner and I both strongly believe that it’s our job as parents to do better than our own parents did, even if our parents had been stellar. But no pressure, right? XD

    It’s well after midnight and I’m rambling now so I’m going to quit while I’m ahead.