I swear the US is fucked at this point. We’re watching the collapse of the American empire in real-time. I expect a USSR style split in my lifetime, and a whole lot of upset rubes who thought that they could just pretend reality didn’t exist and things would go well for them.
I just don’t know which state(s) are going to split off first. Will it be the western states together, a handful of north eastern states, or will some bastard grouping of southern states decide they’ve had enough. Stay tuned!
We can’t split up, all too interdependent. For example, I see people on here telling the red states to fuck off to themselves. Good luck eating food.
How about military presence? Trying to split down on that is a hard stop, not even thinkable. The federal government ain’t going to allow it, no matter what.
Any Southerners wanting to try again are getting stomped far faster than last time. Even then, you got armed libs like me embedded in the countryside. And yes, it’s worth my life to shoot “red shirts”. (And that’s easy for me to say. I’m older and understood my history classes.)
Good luck growing anything after succeeding. It would severely limit California’s access to the Colorado river and considering California is already in a water crisis being self sustainable wouldn’t last very long
Eh I doubt Colorado would block water rights to CA. AZ and UT are kind of the wild cats. I would expect them all to just let it keep flowing because someone up stream of them could do the same. It’s kind of like having nukes and having alliances.
But is the same sort of thoughts when I lived in the Great Lakes area. It was thought to be a good area for dirty bombs and to pollute the hell out of it because it feeds the rest of the country’s water.
Was always told The Perry nuclear power plant was a target because of that
You’re assuming that if they break apart, they wouldn’t trade with each other anymore. That’s not what happened with the USSR, and it’s not what happened with Brexit, and it’s not what would happen if the US split apart.
The federal government won’t be able to do jack shit if California, Oregon(maybe not), and Washington decide to stop giving it money. Sending in the military wouldn’t work, there’s far too many conflicts of interest within the troops. People who were born there, or have family there, or friends.
Seceding from the union is illegal. They would just arrest the organizers in the state government and replace them with acceptable politicians to bring them back in line.
One of the problems I see is that distilling it down more granularly at a state level is you have a huge urban/rural divide. That’s something you just can’t draw a clean line around. You would see a much messier civil war because it’d be “cities against farms”, not just state against state. That’s just one of the many, many issues that would arise.
The divide isn’t between states, though. It’s more rural vs urban, and that doesn’t divide up well into individual countries. Illinois and New York, for example, will still be a core liberal city dominating their conservative rural areas. Likewise, Texas will still be a few core liberal cities dominated by conservative rural areas. There’s not a good way to break any of those cases up.
When the USSR broke apart, the Russians made an international agreement to pay back some of the debt. Pretty much entirely so that at least some creditors would have confidence enough to put more money in.
That’s what I mean, the states would have to come to an agreement on what everyone’s share is. I don’t expect every state to agree to pay $680 billion.
I swear the US is fucked at this point. We’re watching the collapse of the American empire in real-time. I expect a USSR style split in my lifetime, and a whole lot of upset rubes who thought that they could just pretend reality didn’t exist and things would go well for them.
I just don’t know which state(s) are going to split off first. Will it be the western states together, a handful of north eastern states, or will some bastard grouping of southern states decide they’ve had enough. Stay tuned!
We can’t split up, all too interdependent. For example, I see people on here telling the red states to fuck off to themselves. Good luck eating food.
How about military presence? Trying to split down on that is a hard stop, not even thinkable. The federal government ain’t going to allow it, no matter what.
Any Southerners wanting to try again are getting stomped far faster than last time. Even then, you got armed libs like me embedded in the countryside. And yes, it’s worth my life to shoot “red shirts”. (And that’s easy for me to say. I’m older and understood my history classes.)
A third of vegetables grown in the US come from California and an even higher percentage of fruits and nuts.
Good luck growing anything after succeeding. It would severely limit California’s access to the Colorado river and considering California is already in a water crisis being self sustainable wouldn’t last very long
Eh I doubt Colorado would block water rights to CA. AZ and UT are kind of the wild cats. I would expect them all to just let it keep flowing because someone up stream of them could do the same. It’s kind of like having nukes and having alliances.
But is the same sort of thoughts when I lived in the Great Lakes area. It was thought to be a good area for dirty bombs and to pollute the hell out of it because it feeds the rest of the country’s water.
Was always told The Perry nuclear power plant was a target because of that
More than half of everything grown in this country goes to agriculture.
Go fucking vegan!
Do you mean livestock?
si papi
no, it doesn’t.
You’re right – its even more!!
https://ourworldindata.org/global-land-for-agriculture
Thank you for sharing this link, that was really helpful to understand the big picture.
that’s not the amount of food we make: that’s land use. much of it is grazing land.
You’re assuming that if they break apart, they wouldn’t trade with each other anymore. That’s not what happened with the USSR, and it’s not what happened with Brexit, and it’s not what would happen if the US split apart.
The federal government won’t be able to do jack shit if California, Oregon(maybe not), and Washington decide to stop giving it money. Sending in the military wouldn’t work, there’s far too many conflicts of interest within the troops. People who were born there, or have family there, or friends.
Seceding from the union is illegal. They would just arrest the organizers in the state government and replace them with acceptable politicians to bring them back in line.
Seceding from the union is illegal, unless we all agree that this is going to happen.
But there’s plenty of other geographical issues with this idea. It’s hard to draw lines around liberal cities and conservative rural areas.
Ah yes, that’s definitely stopped countries from breaking up before.
One of the problems I see is that distilling it down more granularly at a state level is you have a huge urban/rural divide. That’s something you just can’t draw a clean line around. You would see a much messier civil war because it’d be “cities against farms”, not just state against state. That’s just one of the many, many issues that would arise.
The divide isn’t between states, though. It’s more rural vs urban, and that doesn’t divide up well into individual countries. Illinois and New York, for example, will still be a core liberal city dominating their conservative rural areas. Likewise, Texas will still be a few core liberal cities dominated by conservative rural areas. There’s not a good way to break any of those cases up.
“Balkanization” is the word, in case you’re wondering
I was aware, but most people are not familiar with it so I dumbed it down.
I’ve been thinking about this for a long time. I’m quite interested to see how the national debt gets divided up and how that influences things.
When the USSR broke apart, the Russians made an international agreement to pay back some of the debt. Pretty much entirely so that at least some creditors would have confidence enough to put more money in.
So probably something similar.
That’s what I mean, the states would have to come to an agreement on what everyone’s share is. I don’t expect every state to agree to pay $680 billion.
No, likely the broken off piece(s) would each negotiate with potential creditors separately.