According to the debate, they had their reasons. But still – when one hundred and eighty six nations say one thing, and two say another, you have to wonder about the two.
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Their reasons will not be valid, I’m not going to even entertain reading them.
We make more food than we consume on this planet—in the absence of scarcity, food security is obviously a human right, it’s aggressively malignant to be against this.
Whilst we’re at it, shelter is a human right too, we have several times more empty houses than homeless people in most developed nations—that’s fucked.
we destroy excess food. hire armed thugs to keep people moving into empty shelter.
that’s what your taxes are for.
Grapes of Wrath was required reading for me in both middle and high school. I don’t understand how more Americans aren’t aware of the inhuman actions taken by corporate interests to secure profit.
maybe most just don’t want to be.
I don’t think its that simple, some of them will have it sink in later in life.
Instead I think its more that we have been so conditioned by visual media that books no longer have the impact that they used to. Now it’s movies and music that fill that role of cultural transmission. Just unfortunately the bandwidth on those mediums is terrible compared to the written word.
okay but I watched “the matrix” before high school, and that film is literally just an essay on situationism (an anarchist philosophy of the hyperobject of capitalism) with some kung fu and crypto-trans-positivity mixed in.
so clearly the medium is not the problem here.
Sure The Matrix profoundly affected some people but not for long and it didn’t create any shifts in society other than now some people had the delusion they were actually in the matrix.
On the other hand there have been several books that many claim to be pivotal in great world events.
It’s not that the medium is the problem, it’s that 1) Movies are made for profit, not to transform culture, and 2) Our culture is far to diverse for any one symbol set to be universal the way old Greek plays were.
Also, the trans positivity wouldn’t have been crypto of the fucking studio didn’t shit themselves over Switch. They were the coolest aesthetic in the show and it is a fucking tragedy how they killed them off. I’m pretty sure leaving Switch’s full story in would have got me thinking about what it means to be an ally a decade earlier.
But the shitcase studio was worried that such an (at the time) outrageous thing would kill their profit (it wouldn’t have).
Which is why we can’t trust Hollywood to make our myths and gods.
I mean, there are movies that were, for better and worse (mostly worse) pretty important too. birth of a nation, the great dictator, the exorcist (and its involvement with the satanic panic),
I watched ‘the matrix’ as a kid, and I ended up as an anarchist. maybe coincidence. who knows.
the control of one relatively concentrated entirely capitalist industry is a problem. I agree on that. one could say the same about the publishing industry. and it turns out indie films exist! and are cool sometimes! just like indie publishing! it’s just way harder to distribute them.
I agree. fuck hollywood (the industry) and hollywood (the place, which is tacky as hell and filled with tourists and always smells like piss except when it smells like shit, and they lock up all the parks at like 5 PM, and also all the good pizza places are closed or dont open until dinner. it’s super fucked up, especially when they used to sell by the slice and that’s, like, perfect for lunch).
They also hire armed thugs to keep people from eating edible food that was thrown out
we destroy excess food.
FDR is to blame for that
it’s (mostly) not about government subsidies anymore; it’s about supply and demand being entirely uncoupled. I would put the blame far more firmly at the hands of edward bernaise and lee atwater.
remember; we do this with clothes and toys and literally every product.
Worked at a job that aggressively destroyed unsold product to the point that we had a form to fill out and needed a witness to sign it.
Coworker and I “witnessed” each other “pulverizing” stuffed toys by passing them along to needy children orgs and “dumpstering” other products in thrift store donation bins.
Fuck their “brand integrity” when they’re throwing out perfectly good products to make room for more crap people don’t need.
absolutely. this shit is unforgivable. the only cure is the guillotine. not just killing them, but doing it publically, showing anyone who would ever do this shit again that we ALL want them dead, and nobody will save them, nobody will come to their defense, because they do good for nobody.
This is something that’s starting to get to me.
For the last 30 years EVERY excuse that has been made about America’s inhumane corporate toadying has been utter empty and meaningless bullshit but everyone just pretends it’s real words.
I mean the justifications for things like denying children free breakfast aren’t even rational on the surface, even without going into it.
But FUCKING PEOPLE just nod their head like ‘It’ll prevent them from being independent’ is even close to being a rational statement when we are talking about seven year olds that get all of their food given to them ANYWAY?!
I don’t understand how as a country we have gotten to the point that words literally have no meaning anymore but it is going to take us to a dark place very quickly.
I don’t understand how as a country we have gotten to the point
I hate to inject politics, but this is very much state by state and locale by locale. NOT “as a country”.
Take the recent issue with summer lunch program for school kids. As far as I know, it was no strings attached free money from the federal government, yet some states used it and some didn’t, and pretty much on party lines. This is not a singular example, but repeated over and over: how are basic rights turned into political posturing at the expense of citizens?
Repugnicans have been obstructionists so long, they don’t really know how to do anything other than get frothingly angry at non-issues. Probably some of them were angry that it benefited the poor.
But FUCKING PEOPLE just nod their head like ‘It’ll prevent them from being independent’ is even close to being a rational statement
I suspect that whole line of reasoning is in service of, and/or a consequence of, this country’s aversion to giving people help they didn’t “earn” or don’t “deserve.” I can hear the conservative relatives now… “yeah it’s just $1.50 to feed a kid each day, but that’s another couple hundred dollars in their welfare mom’s crack budget for the year, and WE shouldn’t pay for that!”
For anyone who actually wants to know, here is the U.S. Explanation of Vote on the Right to Food
For the following reasons, we will call a vote and vote “no” on this resolution. First, drawing on the Special Rapporteur’s recent report, this resolution inappropriately introduces a new focus on pesticides. Pesticide-related matters fall within the mandates of several multilateral bodies and fora, including the Food and Agricultural Organization, World Health Organization, and United Nations Environment Program, and are addressed thoroughly in these other contexts. Existing international health and food safety standards provide states with guidance on protecting consumers from pesticide residues in food. Moreover, pesticides are often a critical component of agricultural production, which in turn is crucial to preventing food insecurity.
Second, this resolution inappropriately discusses trade-related issues, which fall outside the subject-matter and the expertise of this Council. The language in paragraph 28 in no way supersedes or otherwise undermines the World Trade Organization (WTO) Nairobi Ministerial Declaration, which all WTO Members adopted by consensus and accurately reflects the current status of the issues in those negotiations. At the WTO Ministerial Conference in Nairobi in 2015, WTO Members could not agree to reaffirm the Doha Development Agenda (DDA). As a result, WTO Members are no longer negotiating under the DDA framework. The United States also does not support the resolution’s numerous references to technology transfer.
We also underscore our disagreement with other inaccurate or imbalanced language in this text. We regret that this resolution contains no reference to the importance of agricultural innovations, which bring wide-ranging benefits to farmers, consumers, and innovators. Strong protection and enforcement of intellectual property rights, including through the international rules-based intellectual property system, provide critical incentives needed to generate the innovation that is crucial to addressing the development challenges of today and tomorrow. In our view, this resolution also draws inaccurate linkages between climate change and human rights related to food.
Furthermore, we reiterate that states are responsible for implementing their human rights obligations. This is true of all obligations that a state has assumed, regardless of external factors, including, for example, the availability of technical and other assistance.
We also do not accept any reading of this resolution or related documents that would suggest that States have particular extraterritorial obligations arising from any concept of a right to food.
Lastly, we wish to clarify our understandings with respect to certain language in this resolution. The United States supports the right of everyone to an adequate standard of living, including food, as recognized in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Domestically, the United States pursues policies that promote access to food, and it is our objective to achieve a world where everyone has adequate access to food, but we do not treat the right to food as an enforceable obligation. The United States does not recognize any change in the current state of conventional or customary international law regarding rights related to food. The United States is not a party to the International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights. Accordingly, we interpret this resolution’s references to the right to food, with respect to States Parties to that covenant, in light of its Article 2(1). We also construe this resolution’s references to member states’ obligations regarding the right to food as applicable to the extent they have assumed such obligations.
Finally, we interpret this resolution’s reaffirmation of previous documents, resolutions, and related human rights mechanisms as applicable to the extent countries affirmed them in the first place.
We also underscore our disagreement with other inaccurate or imbalanced language in this text. We regret that this resolution contains no reference to the importance of agricultural innovations, which bring wide-ranging benefits to farmers, consumers, and innovators. Strong protection and enforcement of intellectual property rights, including through the international rules-based intellectual property system, provide critical incentives needed to generate the innovation that is crucial to addressing the development challenges of today and tomorrow
“We’re fighting to protect John Deere profits…”
My first thought was Monsanto
Some of these seem quite valid, but I really hope “intellectual property” isn’t the real reason. Poorly written regulations are too easily invalidated or ignored, so the feedback to “stay in your lane” seems important. However our corporate masters should not be able to dictate the basic right to food
So yeah. A bunch of bullshit procedural arguments.
Well yeah that’s the thing, a treaty isn’t (or at least shouldn’t) be a vague “helping people is good and being mean is bad”
I started looking into this further and the tweet is misleading. To start with, the graphic is totally inaccurate. This was a vote by the UN Human Rights Council, not the full general assembly. The US was the only country that voted against, with one abstaining. Israel wasn’t involved. It’s also worth emphasizing that the right to food has been established in other international agreements, which the text cites extensively and the US justification refers to near the end.
Edit: I was somewhat incorrect on the vote, there was a later general assembly vote, which the Instagram account that created this links to. However, their effort to imply that the US somehow hates people being fed is still misleading.
As a US citizen, it is a point of great shame that we have so many struggling to eat enough (and/or healthily enough), as well as pay their medical bills.
We are a nation with great influence and military might, but the richest Americans are often a direct reflection for what this nation as a whole truly is… It’s a wealthy place that doesn’t take care of its own citizens.
In this country
We believe
Guns are a right
Food is not
Let them eat guns?
Let them eat guns!
-Marie AR15ntoinette
Huhum! Excuse me but my recent podcast on Marie-Antoinette informed me that she actually never said that but it was attributed to her anyway!
I’m lowering my little finger now.
Podcast where I heard that: The Rest Is History (Spotify)
Can’t afford food? Eat a bullet pleb!
There’s 470 joules of energy in a 9mm. That’s 0.1 kcal, i.e. you need approx. 666 mp5 mag dumps for your daily energy expenditure.
This math does not feel correct. Are you sure you are not confusing a kilocalorie of energy with a thousand NUTRITIONAL calories, which is iirc a thousand times less energetic?
Another way to approximate this: there’s about 0.3g of gunpowder in a 9mm cartridge. There’s about 3 kJ/g of energy in gunpowder, i.e. one 9mm has about 1 kJ worth of gunpowder. So with the gunpowder alone you’d need almost 10,000 rounds for your daily energy needs.
The bullet energy is from several sources and it’s below 500 joules. 2,000 kcal is 8,400,000 joules.
I got banned from face book for sugesting this.
might have to eat the gun the way the world is going
The United States We believe guns are a right Food is luxury
Well, you do use the luxury bones to eat it
Plutocracy, Oligarchy, Bootlickers, all the same: America.
Land of the fee home of the billionaire.
while in this country
a gun is your right to have
so it is to starve
Can we talk about what defining things like this as a “right” means?
Otherwise voting to call it a “right” seems super performative. What’s the consequence of making this a right?
What’s the consequence of making this a right?
Just for starters, it implies certain acts intended to deliberately deprive people of access to food constitute a crime. So embargos of regions like Cuba, Ukraine, Sudan, Gaza, and North Korea would be de facto illegal under international law.
Of course, then you have to start asking questions like “What does it mean to be in violation of international law when the ICJ is so toothless?” But that’s the UN for you. Issuing generally progressive proclamations through a general assembly while a handful of economic heavyweights get to decide how it all gets enforced.
Imagine being the only 2 places on earth that go out of your way to be afraid of a toothless organization.
I’m sure they’ll be offering everyone in their respective countries free food as is their newly given right! Right?
Nestle in every country is getting right on that…
imagine voting against food.
some people really miss the guillotines
Russia: sure
China: okay
North Korea: all right
USA: NNNOOOOOOOOOO!!!
We ARE the bad guys
reductive and meaningless statement, every goddamn country on the planet are fucking bAd GuYs. Newsflash, the majority of humans with power are horrible selfish trash, every country is guilty of disgusting shit. Every country is controlled by their richest assholes.
All true, but begs the question: why did every other country vote yes? The oligarchy knows they only need to control the US vote to stop something like this?
Try not to cut yourself on that edge…
look at the map again
triggered
This is an “are we the baddies?” Moment for the USA.
USA! USA! USA!
Israel is the US’s puppet
Oh honey
You know these ventriloquism-routines where the puppet makes the puppeteer talk with it’s voice?
I’ve watched enough Twilight Zone to know how this works.
In most of The Twilight Zones I watch the puppet ends up killing the parents, taking over the kid and staring at the camera going “Who’s a good boy?”
Which, okay, does kind of sound like the relationship between Israel and the USA but that’s beside the point
Okay, we can hate on Israel all day long for their many crimes, but let’s not entertain “Jews run the United states” jokes. They are the US puppet. A very beloved puppet but still.
let’s not entertain “Jews run the United states”
Large financial institutions run the United States. And those institutions have a vested interest in controlling trade through the Mediterranean Sea, specifically by way of the Suez Canal. This creates a socio-economic incentive to back a heavily armed ethno-state with strong ties to the US/UK financial system. And - after the holocaust - the Jewish diaspora just happens to be the group that fit the bill. (The large Arab community in Saudi Arabia does, too, but its okay to be racist towards Arabs so we don’t complain quite so much about that).
So we run into a problem. Saying “AIPAC is manipulating our elections with enormous sums of cash laundered through the MIC into mass media social manipulation” is true, but quickly gets you labeled antisemitic by people who want to conflate billionaire shipping magnets with your elderly aunt from Queens. Trying to draw a line between plutocrats entangled with the MIC and random synagogues in Chattanooga or Cleveland becomes difficult when you’ve got real actual nazi fucks screaming slurs on one side of you and cynical mass-murdering shits insisting anyone anti-war is anti-Jew on the other.
Yeah, it’s a complicated tight line to walk. Hence why it should be avoided implying that Israel puppets the United states and thus falling into actual Nazi conspiracy theories.
Hence why it should be avoided implying that Israel puppets the United states
The influence of Israeli lobbyists and their affiliates is undeniable. As is the influence of Saudi, UK, Japan, fucking Bermuda…
Fixating on Israelis as uniquely influential is a problem. But then we have no problem with ranting about Trump being a “Russia controlled puppet”, so we clearly aren’t above a little Cold War style hysteria.
It might behove us to ask why Benny from Philly has such disproportionate influence, rather than just writing every observation of influence off as Jew Hate.
But that gets us into a whole conversation about domestic police lobbying, the Pentagon’s revolving door with industry, the role of the O&G lobbyists, etc. And that’s even worse than antisemitism. It’s anti-Americanism.
No one but you mentioned the Jewish religion. Meanwhile, pro-Zionist candidates (right and left) with the backing of the American Israel Public Affairs Committee have had an almost unexplainable 100% rate of election. The US election system has been hijacked by Israeli interests.
Hijacked by Israeli interests? Comrade, they are the US interests before they are Israeli. Flipping it around and pretending the Israel state owns US politics is one key word away from Nazi conspiracy when you know the actual line of motivations begins and ends with the US.
You completely disregard the largest zionist organisation in the US, CUFI, of which most members are American Christians.
The US support for Israel is the perfect storm composed of financial, military and religious interests of various groups in power in the US. The interest of the Israeli government and center to right wing happen to align with those. Thinking Israel is in control in any of this and doesn’t have to pander to those American interest groups is delusional and a common, sometimes antisemitically motivated, misunderstanding.
Thank you!
Neither one is a puppet. Each one uses the other. Israel has an outsize influence on US foreign policy, but the US also has an outsize influence on Israeli foreign policy. Israel tries to sway US elections, and US interests try to sway Israeli elections. They share many of the same enemies, which keeps them tied together even when things aren’t necessarily in their shared interests.
In this particular case, the two probably voted “no” for different reasons.
The US voted “no” because they wanted John Deere to be able to remotely shut down a combine harvester, or so that Monsanto can sue people for misusing seeds, things that probably be illegal if food were seen as a human right. Israel voted no because they wanted to be able to keep denying food to Palestinians.
Associating Judaism with the genocidal state is anti-semitic, we don’t do that here.
The actual 2002-12-18 vote: Yes: 176 | No: 1 | Abstentions: 7 | Non-Voting: 7 | Total voting membership: 191
UNITED STATES was the only No
The map is for the 2021 vote, not the 2002 vote.
The map is for 2021
Right, the vote for 2021-12-16 were: Yes: 186 | No: 2 | Abstentions: | Non-Voting: 5 | Total voting membership: 193
ISRAEL, UNITED STATES were the only No
That’s what the post says
Ok ok, this vote was over 20 years ago. Not that I think the result would be different if it was held now.
This map is from 2021. The commenter is confused.
Great, I can see why Israel wanted to keep the ‘starving children’ option open given that that’s what they were already doing in Gaza before Oct 7.
I’m guessing OP didn’t know it was 20+ years ago? It happens.
The OP checked. The OP knows it was from 2021.
The OP also likes talking about himself in the third person. Because The OP thinks its fun.
Nice job, the OP.
SoleInvictus appreciated OP’s attention to detail and use of third person.
He decided to write a response in second person to hopefully add to the fun, and hopes someone will follow up with a comment in fourth person while recognizing he left them the most difficult task. He doesn’t feel too bad.
“Can you believe this SoleInvictus guy? I just write a simple comment and now he’s got me talking directly to the internet in some sort of fourth wall break thing? I mean is that even a thing with the internet, given that it doesn’t even have a wall?” (Gabe shrugs) “Or is it an infinite wall break, what with all the monitors, phones, tablets, smart tvs and the like I must be staring out at this point?” (looks around with a paranoid expression) “Well, thanks for listening, but I’m going somewhere I can sit down and have a nice cup of Bovril” (slowly backs away into the shadows until nothing remains but the after image)
Chat, what’s with these two?
A SHADY RAVEN CONCURS
What’s the rationale from the US? Where’s the ruling?
The resolution said some stuff about pesticides the US didn’t like.
The resolution encroached on other trade agreements the US would rather pursue.
The US doesn’t want to transfer technology and wants to keep its own IP rights.
The US doesn’t want extraterritorial obligations that the language of the resolution suggests. It thinks all countries should manage their own shit internally.
The US claimed that it domestically supports the right to food and promotes policies to further that goal but doesn’t want it to be an enforceable obligation. (Pretty language that basically says the US doesn’t think food should actually be an international right.)
Now see, that’s all more reasonable.
The US is evil and wrong here, don’t get me wrong, but it’s much more understandable than some cartoon villain esque reason people were speculating on.
Except if US really supported the right to food, domestically, then wellfare benefits and minimum wage would be higher, Price controls would be in place for staple foods, and there would be more regulation on food safety.
US just doesnt like being told what to do, and will adamantly do the exact opposite of any good if anyone but Muricuh suggests it.
because whats a bunch of malnourished babies and driving people to crime for basic necessities, compared to FrEeDuMb
Yeah, unfortunately this seems to be the take with many resolutions. The U.S. doesn’t even want the possibility of being compelled to do something.
Honestly Lemmy mainstream, biggest comms are pretty damn stupid already. It’s all infinite outrage fest or exhausting doomerism.
In much more advanced stage than any area of internet I have seen.
Yeah it’s kinda sad, but older Reddit replacements were like that too.
It’s actively detrimental, I gotta change my usage pattern
It will hopefully get better as it gets larger?
“Mainstream” Reddit was always awful too, the niches are where its at. And those are just babies on Lemmy now.
Now see, that’s all more reasonable.
Ehhh it’s really just thinly vieled excuses. Hopefully having a VP who enacted universal free school meals changes things a bit (and current polling shows a really strong chance he’ll be the VP in 5 months)
Another Trump victory would be karma at this point.
The torture that is us is karma enough I would say. At least for our citizens. Those in other countries don’t deserve this shit.
At least we have giga military. It’s useful for Ukraine when the wind blows a certain direction.
There won’t be one publicly. But considering the pairing and the president in December 2021 I’m going to go with Israel asked for it.
Shithole countries
Surely Americans above anyone else would want guaranteed access to food? Imagine them going a day without a hamburger?
(I’m poking fun, not being serious)
its easy to go a day without a hamburger, those are chicken nuggy days
Or, as it’s called in France, cakeday
Reddit is France now?
When breadtube is down, they can just celebrate cakeday
This is America, land of the free - as in you are free to fuck off and die, here’s your bill. Capitalism won’t allow for equitable distribution of basic resources because then line don’t go up. We live in hell and claim it’s a privilege, and I hate it.
That’s part of the problem. Obesity and malnutrition go hand-in-hand in this country because healthy foods are more expensive and more difficult to procure and prepare for people who are just scraping by. People will rant and holler about how poor people are so stupid for buying and eating fast food when buying ingredients and cooking can be cheaper and is definitely healthier, but that does not account for the people who are working 2 or 3 jobs to make ends meet and they simply do not have time for grocery shopping and cooking. There’s also the astonishingly dystopian reality of “food deserts” where there are people who don’t have access to actual grocery stores that sell fresh produce and meat. There are plenty of neighborhoods and even entire towns in America that do not have a store where they can buy fresh food, and even more where they don’t have access to affordable fresh food. It’s abominable.
As a medical professional, I see patients with tons of health problems including obesity, diabetes, hypertension, metabolic syndrome…the list goes on…and they simply do not have reliable, functional access to the healthier diet that would go a long way towards fixing those health problems. There are morbidly obese children with diseases like pellagra because of vitamin deficiencies, or obese people with muscle wasting because the food they have access to is mostly carbs and fat with very little protein. It is so frustrating and appalling to me that people on the outside of these situations look down on people struggling with obesity and diabetes and whatnot as if those people had any meaningful control over their situations.
One of my attending physicians in the family medicine clinic described it as “regular, small-town Midwest problems”. Often, the best we can do is recommend that they try to get more fruits and vegetables, whole grains, fish or chicken instead of red meat…but we also prescribe multivitamins and weight loss, diabetes, and hypertension medications because insurance will at least help pay for those. Honestly, health insurance companies could save literal billions of dollars if they offered rebate programs for healthy food and supported local farmers’ markets or something. Diet and exercise will lower someone’s high blood pressure 5 times as much as most of the medications will.
joke, got it, but actually 🤓☝️…
the US is #10 among countries ranked by obesity rate: https://data.worldobesity.org/rankings/
1 American Samoa 70.29%
2 Nauru 69.65%
3 Tokelau 67.05%
4 Cook Islands 66.05%
5 Niue 63.71%
6 Tonga 63.37%
7 Tuvalu 57.73%
8 Samoa 52.83%
9 French Polynesia 47.02%
10 United States 41.64%
alt source with slightly different rankings, where US is #14: https://www.worldatlas.com/society/the-most-obese-countries-in-the-world.html
American Samoa isn’t a country. It’s a US territory.
A lot of those others aren’t countries either. Tokelau “belongs” to New Zealand. Niue and Cook islands are legally shaky as well.
The population for all combined above the US, compared to the entire US population is ridiculously low, and I feel like this is to distract from how massive the obesity issue is in the US. When excluding what are basically territories and at most micronations, the US has the most severe obesity issue.
Ok, now take out every country with a population smaller than 10.
Americans are too busy wasting food to consider others could eat it.
The United States is such a monstrous entity. Fuck this entire country. Someone hurry up and start the Second American Revolution, I’m fucking tired of this shithole.
I mean, there are folks trying, but I don’t really like what they’re trying for.
I was struggling to believe this. I mean Turkey, China, North Korea, really? But yeah, I read a little about the reasoning on a .gov website, but there was a lot of, let’s just say language there. Someone on stack exchange broke it down and regrettably the reasons aren’t good. Mostly it was along the lines of, if people just decided to stop working, we don’t want to have to provide them with food or it would infringe upon our intellectual property if we were forced to help others with their right to food. It would also did into our food profits. So yeah… Shit.
