I think a little clarification is needed. No. I don’t actually think everyone there is insane. I don’t care about the bans so stop trying to use that. HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point
Edit: Feel free to keep trying to brigade me. It’s not going to scare me to take this down
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“HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point”
Without taking any sides, saying some group is insane and then saying that them lashing back “proves your point” is beyond stupid.
Like, of course they will, what else do you expect them to do? Sit and politely agree?
We should stop with this kind of BS in any sort of debate. Groups will protect themselves, and will not get polite to those who throw slurs at them; that’s natural, normal and speaks nothing about their average behavior.
This never proves any point and is nothing but a dirty rhetorical device aimed to shut your opposition up and make them seem irrelevant. This is not part of any possible healthy conversation.
Also, post is not a genuine question.
Also, post is not a genuine question.
I’ll answer yours in good faith.
what else do you expect them to do? Sit and politely agree?
Internally reach consensus to segregate themselves, then brigade the fediverse whole with content that allowed the majority to believe it was their choice.
Because such actions are well outside of status quo want for bandwagon validation they’re by definition “insane” and “unexpected”. But, the hexbear community is well aware that the majority is better off not yet knowing what they believe. Many expected such actions as it was an obvious moral and ethical imperative that lacked internal leadership support.
If someone calls me insane, the response that proves them wrong is a reasonable, chill response at most. The actual sane thing to do is ignore them or make a joke about the claim.
Just like if someone calls me weird, the response that proves I’m not weird is to say, “hahaha, sure, whatever” or “so what?” The response that would prove their point is along the lines of, “I’m not weird, you’re weird” or “they’re not calling me weird, they’re calling my associate weird.”
Ignoring or shrugging off shit people say about you may actually not be a viable long-term strategy.
Contrary to what many of us have been taught, this actually allows others to reinforce their views about you inside their echo chambers.
That’s not to mention it’s simply not great to hear that stuff said about you or the group you care about, and the longer this drags on, the more toxicity, alienation, and spite inevitably accumulates. None of us are immune to this, and it’s not insane to be hostile to those who are hostile to you.
Nope. They seem pretty sane and rational in comparison to places like Reddit, Lemmy.world, Twitter, 4chan, Facebook, etc.
You wrote reddit twice in a row.
Found the Hexbear user doing a psy-op.
Edit: stay mad, tankies.
I think anyone who’s even remotely curious about hexbear should go make an account and just… Iunno, check it out? That’s what i did and it ended up being my home away from home.
Their viewpoints are gonna be absolute whiplash for most people unaccustomed to speaking about world topics from a non-us-centric perspective, or who have only learned about what communism actually is from our (definitely not biased) general education.
Calling those viewpoints “crazy” is just a shortcut, a base dismissal of thought unworthy of critical thinkers.
If you take me up on this, go lurk a bit! They can’t hurt you. If after awhile of lurking, you have a question (you will have questions) ask them from a position of curiosity that you’re interested in their perspective instead of one there to “educate the commies” and you’ll be just fine. Hell you don’t ever have to engage in politics at all there, hexbear has as many shitposts as the other instances do
I recall i went to hexbear because sh.itjust.works was defedding and erryone was just so mad at them i had to see what the fuss was about. Im very glad i did
If you’re saying I’m calling their viewpoints crazy, I’m not. I didn’t get a view point besides I’m pig slop, a piece of shit, brainwashed by the empire (whatever the hell that means), stupid, a basement dweller, and today, I think they called me a pervert
This is my exact same experience. I ask for someone to elaborate on their stance, get told (not accused, told) I’m trolling. Ask for explanation/definition of a concept, get called an idiot shitlib and told to read some theory. Ask for civility, get told I deserve abuse for “endorsing genocide”. (By the way, I absolutely oppose the genocide in Gaza. But I’m a genocide supporter I guess because I won’t flush my vote third party this November.)
Hexbear is a community that expects you to conform. Every time there is a post like this, someone comes out of the woodwork and says “They’re nice people if you talk like them and agree with them on everything.” It’s cool that you’re not getting abused, but abuse is coming from that space, whether or not it is happening to you.
It’s a shame because I would like to hear the nuances of their viewpoints, but I can never get them to tell me what they are. Always complaining that nobody tries to understand, but dogpiling on anyone that asks questions. Then they pull up your report history and tell you “It’s just a little dunking bro, stop being a snowflake” for not putting up with it.
Users of Hexbear, if you’re reading these words, do better. Nobody is going to sympathize with your cause if you antagonize outsiders that want to learn more.
Your mistake was posting in the dunk tank. That is literally a “vent” sub where they vent their frustrations against stupid US empire propaganda takes.
It’s the dunk tank.
This is where you come to post big-brained hot takes by chuds, libs, or even fellow leftists, and tear them to itty-bitty pieces with precision dunkstrikes.
If you go there expecting reasonable treatment for your opinions, you misunderstood the assignment. That is a shitpost sub where only one side is right.
How do I know this? Because I went there once and got dunked on too! But that does not represent the entirety of hexbear. I think.
Then I think I made the same mistake that you did. However I took a shot and dunked on them, and they went insane. Like water in a fryer
So this post is because you’re angry ya got dunked on? You can’t just post liberal political opinions (that would do well in liberal spaces) and expect them to fly in a commie space…
Wait, i recognize you! Ive argued with you myself! You definitely don’t approach hexbear with a perspective of learning something, and iirc you’re not the most respectful of other opinions haha! You been banned a couple times and still ain’t learned shit about shit. Should i pm you with those threads with explanations of what and where you went wrong? Id be ecstatic to teach you something today
again youre misrepresenting. you got several well articulated lengthy explanations and dismissed them or didn’t reply.
Those aren’t good responses. The narrative of “poor Putin just had to invade Ukraine, don’t you see?” is bollocks.
Their weird insistence that anyone that doesn’t agree with them is a “lib” that needs “dunking on” is tiring. If you don’t show full-throated support for authoritarian regimes that they happen to like, then you clearly support Israel and genocide. They need to mature a bit, and realize that the world isn’t black and white, and it doesn’t neatly fall into convenient categories that can be nicely labelled.
Except these replies are made to illustrate the viewpoints held by the commenters and not meant to be dunks. Rather obviously imo. Yet OP is claiming he only got called mean words and no one explained to them why they think what they think.
There absolutely were good faith explanations but OP didn’t engage with any of them in kind but chose to keep replying to the dunks instead.
Do you have any examples of this? Since world is defederated from that instance, I only end up visiting it when people like you come in and talk about how absolutely crazy it is over there, so occasionally I’ll take a curious peek. This time I see… a post about Indigenous rights, a post criticizing capitalism, a post dunking on musk, a post about FOSS… when do I start seeing the crazy?
Hexbear is sort of like a village of eldritch abomination worshippers in a Lovecraftian horror story - isolated, insular, entirely wrapped up in their own esoteric rituals and ideas and language, and immediately and collectively hostile to outsiders.
These pathetic foxes are pissed they’ve been neutralized by defederation. They’re mad that the contagion has been contained. That real lefties, even communists don’t take them seriously.
These guys aren’t fooling anyone. The online left doesn’t need their rotten discourse, and they don’t belong there.
It’s just 4chan cosplaying communism. Truly despicable.
Many of them, yes. They’re among the most radical of the leftist instances, which means that they attract a lot of propagandists and tankies. They have some perfectly reasonable people too, but you know, vocal minority. Its the main thing most people notice about those instances.
Many people block hexbear, Lemmy.ml, and lemmygrad for these reasons.
What is a ‘tankie’?
In theory, the things the other replies said.
In practice, anything left of the average Lemmy.world liberal/democrat.
I don’t Lemmy enough to say there are zero hexbear users who are pro China or pro wtfever people say, but I see almost none of the ridiculous shit the rest of Lemmy claim exclusively happens there. What I DO see is liberals (usually from lemmy.world if we’re swinging at instances) talking ridiculous trollish shit to hexbear users than using the silly trollish responses they get in response to justify these “all hexbears want to give America to Xi Jinping” posts.
I dunno, I ended up blocking the instance way before I knew about their reputation (like, when I first joined Lemmy) because all of the users their kept posting the most unhinged shit.
I have definitely seen blatant apologism for China/Russia from them.
FWIW, I’m much further left than your average Democrat (I consider myself a leftist/anarchist). I personally don’t consider what I’ve seen from them to be very “left”, just authoritarian.
I was sure to not be an absolutist for a reason, I’m not always cruising Lemmy. Hexbear in particular absolutely has a sense of humor sometimes that I myself am a bit old for, but judging them for that is very much more “Old man yelling at clouds” than anything. If you don’t like it, sure, but that doesn’t say A or B about them.
Maybe there’s blatant apologism, but in my experience it’s people taking whatever scraps they can find to claim “Apologism.” For example, discussing high speed rail development in China. Admiring a rail system isn’t “blatant apologism,” but most lemmy liberals would call it as such, because it was built by China. It’s like calling me a Putin apologist for discussing Dostoyevsky. Yes, I’m admiring a creation of the country or it’s culture, but I’m not saying that their current governments are the only way forward or really saying anything about governance at all.
Again, I’m not claiming you haven’t seen something “blatant” before (I could name so many one off events I’ve witnessed that don’t hold to norms,) I’m just saying that people claiming it to be this widespread norm on every leftist instance are spreading disinformation.
Sure, perhaps it’s possible that I saw an unusually high amount of apologists, but I’m saying that it happened enough times and consistently enough that it prompted me to block them before I even knew anything about them, which I think at least says something. I won’t claim to know what the majority opinion there is, but I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that it’s an abnormal amount.
As I mentioned, I’d be inclined to wonder what you’re considering “apologism.” The fact that you didn’t address the points I made makes me think you fall into that camp of boiling an intentionally wide array of ideas, conversation, etc down to “apologism” to take up arms against instances you don’t like. I see discussion of those countries, and examples of things that are happening there, but not one time have I seen people celebrating violence or excusing it on either hexbear or .ml.
Apologists for Chinese/Russian government.
Tankie is such a weird thing to call these communists. They are way way less violent than liberals and conservatives are. They don’t even support any on going genocides like the others do.
Yes, Everyone. the bots, the human user, me, and even you. You can’t escape it.
Yeah but my insane is cheeky and fun. Their insane is cruel and tragic
I’m going to pistol whip the next person who says shenanigans
Hey EABOD25, what’s the name of that restaurant you like with all the goofy shit on the walls and the mozzarella sticks?
Insane!? You’re talking about Insane right?
No, no. The one with the wild and wacky activities!
You and @EABOD25@lemm.ee aren’t on hexbear, though, are you?
I normally search search by “all” when scrolling and I’ll see one or two posts from there. I haven’t really figured out all the technicals, but I see posts from all instances
Sure, but I meant you asked if everyone in hexbear is insane, and they included you and themselves in the hexbear server, I think?
Anyway, you can block users/communities/servers, still. Maybe that can improve your experience?
I wouldn’t know I blocked it immediately.
Thank god for hexbear and lemmygrad though. Imagine the effort needed to block them all individually if spread over all the other instances.
Before instance blocking was a thing I blocked individual trolls wheb I saw them and after about the fifth block I didn’t see a lot of hexbear, so it they have a few very loud individuals but instance blocking hexbear really made my browsing a lot more chill
If you think yogthos isn’t the main account of return2ozma you’re gonna have a bad time.
Yeah, it’s actually helpful to have safe spaces for hateful assholes so they can be corralled away.
On the other hand, an isolated community can also become a nasty brewing pot, reinforcing harmful behaviors and even intensifying them over time.
I don’t think calling them safe spaces for hateful assholes is accurate, but I understand frustrations with them.
Its a safe space for them to be… away from me
They still get loose and troll .world while the mods there give them free reign and ban you if you report them for trolling. You can’t call them trolls, but they can call you a troll.
HB enthusiasts coming here and trying to call me out achieves nothing besides proving my point
Yeah, you can always count on them to brigade.
Yeah. They’ve been downvote bombing me since yesterday. And they were telling me I’m the one that needs to go back to reddit lol
I don’t mind communism. I do mind advocating for Russia, in a war where they are clearly the aggressor, and harassing then moving to harass the same left wing for not being as radical or as pro-russian and deluding themselves with false beliefs that they are alone and no one is left wing other than them
Totally agree with you. During the issue , there were some people that had a backhanded way of asking what i meant when I said that Russia had no reason to invade Ukraine. So I said that Putin was trying to get his glorious USSR back. I wasn’t being literal, but the past 20 years shows that he has been trying to annex states that were previously under the USSR or at the very least keeping extremely close, controllable ties with them. I got ridiculed and belittled without further request of clarification. And I think it’s because they aren’t interested or they are under the Russian propaganda machine.
You can’t deliver garbage writing to communists and expect positive results. The standard of semantics and nuance are set by socio-economic authors predominantly from the mid-to-late nineteenth century. Prerequisite to even speaking is a comprehensive understanding of at least The Conquest of Bread. One is expected to have the ability to segregate content from presentation and ideology from means of implementation. It’s as if you walked into university dynamics and poorly presented an algebra-based approach to a single body problem.
In certain forums, unless I’m very well-informed about a topic, I’ve learned to shut the fuck up unless asking questions, and to ask them with humility. In communist forums, which always stress education, I consistently receive high quality answers.
It seems to me you’re under the belief that they can say and believe whatever they want without criticism, and they shouldn’t be allowed to be criticized. Also, I see you have used the phrase “neolib,” so your beliefs are probably more in line with theirs than mine are. Of course, you’re not going to be criticized. However, I do have the right to critique the approach with their criticism. The short-and-skinny of what I observed is that they can dish it out, but can’t take it. It’s irrational and a very closed off way if thinking. If they want to be talked to and about in a certain way, then they themselves need to do the same
You delivered nonsense without even considering semantic. You felt entitled to others figuring it out for you. And, you were rejected due to your lack of effort.
I’ll now reject you for gaslighting me about your comments, which I’ve read, and the follow up strawman.
It’s simply not good enough. I don’t care why. But, I know you’ve nothing to contribute but practice material for identifying logical fallacy.
Well thank you letting me live rent free in your head. You wasted your mental energy by coming here and saying that. And you have proved nothing besides exactly what I said. You didn’t come here to get an understanding of me, you came here to try and call me out.
So do you feel better about yourself? You holding your head up higher now?
My guy, this is a wild attempt a retort, given this entire thread was so you could come call Hexbears out, not to get any understanding.
My friend, I don’t give a shit
Jerking communist doctrine while ignoring historic facts is indeed their with “what about capitalism” MO tiring.
Yeah the west sucks but they are winning the battle for now. Pretending like communist Revolution is the better route over structural reforms is also unstated theme.
Which leads me to believe that they are bad faith actors.
Communist revolution because capitalism has failed as predicted is the primary and public point of community unification for hexbear. Your assertions are laughable.
It is definitely failing lol but idea that some strong man is going to come to save us from the current strong men is laughable ;)
Also, foundational text only ID’ed the problem, it never provided a solution. Tankie larping leninst or Maoist is straight up bad faith actor from perspective of the doctrine since it has proven to be ineffective as executed by their respective “thinkers”
I’m not convinced you’ve read or have a basic understanding of any foundational text, based on your assertions here.
He also pretty much said as much during his initial ramblings during the invasion- that ukraine and other former Soviet states are rightfully a part of Russia.
But in their eyes, I’m the crazy, illiterate, stupid lib
And yaknow, I wouldn’t even mind being viewed that way. It’s the shitty moderation style I will mock endlessly.
Not really. They have a lot of bits and in-jokes which are going to seem incomprehensible to anyone from the outside, but most of them are pretty chill if you engage in good faith. It’s like a lot of tech communities; if you don’t do your research and ask intelligent questions, you’re likely to get told to RTFM.
Yeah it’s just like that… except that they advocate for the murder and starvation of countless people as a step in a process towards a utopia that cannot exist.
But yeah just a bunch of fun people with inside jokes
Your last comment is literally eco-fascist shit and you’re concern trolling about starvation?
I don’t understand… I was describing the reality of climate change. Does that make you uncomfortable?
Yeah, I think humans deserve the consequences of our actions with respect to climate change. And…?
Was I advocating for it? Do you maybe not know what that word means?
How does it feel to be the person who takes screenshots of other people’s comments on an Internet forum because you think it’s some kind of “gotcha”?
I think HB and some of the other groups are mostly trolls or Russian, Chinese, Iranian, North Korean, or aligned operatives trying to gas up trolls or wannabe trolls.
There are definitely some well meaning Americans and others who get suckered into the bullshit tornado that is those sites. They are definitely worth saving if we can. But it’s hard. They ban and block anyone with a dissenting voice no matter how calmly presented.
I see it as the neonazi movement in the US in late 90s and early 2000s. They want to be edgy, but don’t have a significant structure to actually do anything important. Around 2006 I ended up stealing a knife from a neonazi that came in to the restaurant that I worked at. It was a Mexican restaurant btw lol
Most of the Lemmy.World users and mods are actively advocating to vote for Genocide, so i understand that Hexbear is a culture shock.
That vote was made in the Obama era. There’s a 35 billion dollar funding scheme for Israel that’s bin full swing.
Stopping it would require a lot of changes across multiple stratas of government and legal procedures.
… it’s not as simple as “the president” or “the party” can just stop a long term international set of contracts across industries and government agencies and departments.
The video “Rules for Rulers” by YouTuber CPGGrey covers some of this.
In this case the rulers are not listening to their constituents and being extremely corrupt. Meaning their constituents should stop supporting said rulers.
it’s not as simple as “the president” or “the party” can just stop a long term international set of contracts across industries and government agencies and departments.
It is called Leahy law, and the current president is actively violating the law by sending weapons to israel which uses them to commit war crimes.
To play devil’s advocate, leahy law;
…prohibits the U.S. Department of State and Department of Defense from providing military assistance to foreign security force units that violate human rights with impunity.
But the fact that Israel is a democracy, suggests there are reprocessions, eg. Netenyahu could lose the election, and even face reprocessions from the next elected leader. So that’s not acting “with impunity”.
Israel has taken measures to make their genocide look considered (eg. Dropping flyers, naming bombing targets)… And to some extent, anyone wanting to claim they’re acting woth impunity (although it’s highly unlikely they’ll ever see reprocessions) - will have similar issues to those faced at Nuremberg, where the US didn’t want to invent laws to accuse them of being guilty of or having violated (as that would look like a kangaroo court, or future crime)…
…and unfortunately, due to the US having it’s own patchy human rights record, they avoid being a signatatory to international courts like The Hague.
So yeah, your claim wouldn’t be substantiated. It’s not that simple, you may as we’ll be claiming we can “reform our way our of Capitalism”… That’s a nice idea (as Leahy Law is), but they’re just not practically applicable.
Which is why I directed people to the “Rules for Rulers” video (by CPG grey), because it explains these basics to Socialists who basically live in these fantasy land conceptions of politics.
Of course fantasy land conceptions get upvotes, reality checks get downvotes, it’s a great system, designed to cause mental stagnation and “apathy through idealism” in the masses.
This is an israel problem not a Netanyahu problem.
Also israel is not a Democracy it is an Apartheid.
But also, if you’re trying to apply US law, then they don’t have to be a functional democracy - just recognized as one by the US.
So that’s a naive approach.
Both, it’s a Netenyahu problem and it’s attached to conspiracy theories around the assassination of the guy before him. The right wing captured cultural territory there that the progressive left have never been able to shift back, and it resulted in a lot of the population shifting to the right.
In any case “the leader might lose an election” is not what the “with impunity” clause entails.
Hitler also killed himself at the end of WW2, I doubt that could be used as an excuse to justify giving free weapons to the Nazis.
The US was at war with Hitler, and has given other genocidal regimes weapons.
That’s not where my interest lays, it lays in practical, and applicable solutions.
You don’t have any, I don’t have any.
