Independent Sen. Bernie Sanders said Sunday he doesn’t know that a ceasefire is possible in the Israel-Hamas war with “an organization like Hamas” involved.
“I don’t know how you can have a ceasefire, (a) permanent ceasefire, with an organization like Hamas, which is dedicated to turmoil and chaos and destroying the state of Israel,” Sanders told CNN’s Dana Bash on “State of the Union” Sunday.
I don’t think peace is possible when one side is holding the other in an open air prison and giving them only the amount of calories needed to not die (after the war started even that was suspended)
Stop calling it a prison, prisons are for convicted criminals, Palestinian’s only crime is being Palestinian. These were open air concentration camps, they are now open air extermination camps
Always?
No one said the conviction is justified, but yes, convicted.
What is Guantanamo?
A torture camp with no blanket constitutional protections
“Uh it’s just a building with rooms you can’t leave. But it’s not a prison”
Not a prison if that is what you are getting at
That’s not what they’re getting at. They question isn’t “what is it not?”. The question is “what is it?”.
The non-trivial question that moves this forward
Have you ever seen Gaza? I thought it looked more like a city.
Is “open air concentration camps” now a code word for dense urban city?
Honestly this looks like a pretty nice city to me.
It is when trying to leave gets you opened up on by the Israeli air force.
No, a prison is just a facility designed to keep people inside against their will.
Does that change anything?
Hamas is a terrorist organization with strong ties to Iran. We’ve already seen what happens when terrorist groups destabilize countries and take control. Syria is an ongoing testament to that. So is Afghanistan
Are the Israeli Government’s sins the reason why Hamas is in power? The extent is arguable, but it would be a lie to outright say “no”.
But… does that change anything?
Hamas is the power in Gaza. Any form of concessions that don’t involve the destruction of Hamas will be considered a win because the Palestinian people have been held in an open air prison for decades. And that will just lead to Hamas becoming more powerful.
If someone was abused horrifically as a child and decided to get a gun and take it out on others, what do you do? In a just world, you get them the help that they need. But in any world, the first thing you do is take the gun away before they can hurt anyone else.
What that means in this situation? I don’t know. Short of external military intervention, the Israeli government is not going to stand down. And I for one don’t want the US and NATO to fuck around in yet another middle eastern country for another two decades only to leave it considerably worse than we found it.
You realize Israel is controlling the prison in reality, right?
Hamas doesn’t shoot Palestinians that go to far off the coast, Israel does.
Hamas didn’t erect a huge border wall around Gaza, Israel did.
Hamas doesn’t control the supply of food, water, and goods into Gaza. Israel does.
Who controls Gaza?
At least for #2, you might want to do more research into why hamas doesn’t have prisons in Gaza…
Ok are you talking about Hamas or the Palestinian people? Cause I keep being told they’re different, and that Hamas doesn’t represent Palestinians, yet here you are talking about them as if they’re the same. So which is it? Cause you’re asking me to feel bad for Hamas fighters? Cause I won’t.
I didn’t mention Hamas, I said Israel is oppressing Palestinians and you should feel bad for the nearly 4,000 children that died.
Hamas is oppressing Palestinians and are responsible for the 4000 children that died. Non hamas Palestinians should try fleeing the country or fighting back against hamas so they can be free
Fight back? Lol. After being born in an open air prison.
After being born into oppression.
After being told they’re nothing more than animals.
After being thrown in prison as a kid for decades because they threw stones at a fucking tank.
After being slowly starved to death.
After being evicted from their lands and homes by the Israeli military, AND being mocked by the very settlers that take their homes from them right in front of their faces at the same time.
After their parents, children, siblings, aunts and uncles, their entire fucking bloodline is being bombed to death.
After watching the whole world just stand there and watch them being slaughtered just because Israel has more money, so they can lobby?
After weeks of Israel secretly lobbying the EU and US to displace all Palestinians to the Sinai peninsula, you know, a fucking HUGE part of another sovereign country like that’s very normal, all the while killing thousands of people for a little piece of their land? Now I understand why the Egyptian president Sisi told the EU to take in Gazans themselves, if they care so much about human rights.
After kids literally see organs and body parts flying around because of the bombing?
After having no access to water, so no drinking water, toilets, showers, dehumanising them. Opening one water source because of UN pressure and then a few days later bombing that specific water source…
After having no food for a month now.
After threatening the UN to teach them a lesson because they asked for a humanitarian pause.
After killing journalists and their entire family in precision attacks, so they can’t report what’s really going on?
After killing UN workers?
Right now they’ve also run out of medicine. One patient’s lungs had to be rinsed with ginger. They use effing ginger as an antibiotic/antiseptic. One kids leg had been blown off and they had to operate without anesthesia…
You want these people to fight? LOL.
There’s really no way Israel comes out of this as the ‘good guy’. The atrocities they committed and still are committing in less than a month’s time, has made the world forget about 7/10. THAT says something, because we thought THAT day was bad.
Actually in Gaza they have the 1967 borders and all the settlers were forcibly evicted in 2004/2005 (some at gunpoint). You’re thinking of the West Bank, we’re talking about Gaza.
A lot of this rant doesn’t really apply to Gaza.
Yes fight back like so many oppressed people have done before. Or flee to a place that doesn’t oppress you.
Clearly you didn’t read any of that. Where can they go? They are essentially trapped. And of course they have to leave their homes when they’re being oppressed.
They are surrounded on 3 sides woth places they can go. Into the water to flee , down into Egypt or up.into Jordan by land.
The Palestinians you are telling to fight back are also children.
And ? Lots of revolutions are lead by the young.
44% of their population is under the age of 15. Name one revolution that was lead by an army of 7 year olds. If by some miracle you can, name one that was lead against a terrorist organization. Not some rinky-dink operation either. Terrorists that were, I don’t know, funded by a country like Iran?
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Removed for ableist language.
Let’s be honest here, you removed it because you don’t agree with what I said, and used a word that I didn’t use in an ableist context as a reason to remove it.
Where can they flee?
Literally anywhere. Have you looked at the people illegally crossing the usa southern border? There are Russians and idians. They can escape almost anywhere they have access to flight through then ocean or land borders
Honestly if anyone actually cared about the people there’s loads of places that could go, I’m sure Israel would even help fund the building of a city on Saudi Arabia or Iran, plenty of space and cities are getting built in the region all the time. They could all live nice happy lives
But no one will let that happen of course because it’s not about the people it’s about the land, and not even land with resources - land the people funding all this have no intention of ever visiting, but they don’t want Israel to have it.
What you are describing is ethnic cleansing
And become like… The west bank?
oppressed people went with the extreme as they had no hope of freedom and anger built up from their oppression.
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Yeah, that’d be crazy if it was happening.
It would be crazy if you had basic empathy for the almost 4,000 Palestinian children killed
I’m just sick to fucking death of extremists. I didn’t leave the alt-right shithole that’s Reddit to just watch tankie shitheads feign “empathy”. The vast majority of you didn’t give a single, watery shit about any child in the Middle East a month ago.
Israel tried for decades to reach a peaceful two-state solution. Even offering to construct and maintain an elevated highway and rail corridor between Gaza and the West Bank. They even offered a plan where they would have forcefully relocated established Jewish settlements. But none of that was good enough for the Palestinians and Arafat. Ever hear the phrase “from the river to the sea”? If you haven’t, you should look into the history of that.
You won’t catch me saying the IDF is perfect and gargling everything from the Jerusalem Post. But you also won’t find me saying that Gaza is an “open air prison” when they share a border with Egypt, were originally territory of Egypt that Egypt didn’t even want back, and have a coastline on the Mediterranean. All this talk of “genocide” and “open air prison” being caused by Israel is fucking delusional.
Educate yourself on the history of this region from actual historical sources. Start with the citations on Wikipedia if you actually want to know who’s in the right and who’s in the wrong. Don’t go listening to fucking TikTokers or influencers.
Whether you like it or not, Israel tried for decades to reach a peaceful, two-state solution. The Palestinians rejected all plans, even those that had Israel putting its own security in jeopardy. The international community never stepped in to force a peace plan. Israel was abandoned by the world and told to fight with both hands tied behind its back. Is it any wonder that fascists like Netanyahu and Likud were able to come to power in Israel? They tried electing moderates and pursuing peace for years, but all they got was a slap in the face.
If you want true peace in the Middle East, then it’s going to require a massive international military intervention to force a peace; there is no other way. This may shock you, but that intervention would actually be an invasion and occupation of Gaza and the West Bank. So either support that, or shut the fuck up.
Tell me what Israeli news do you watch? I personally watch i24 and regularly keep up with Israeli politics. Do you even know what Kahanism is, who Ben Gavir is, or why so many people (myself included) despise the far right crime minister BB?
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I’m not simply an American who decided to take interest in Israel, I’m Jewish and regularly speak to Israelis. I have heard them openly talking about how civilian deaths are justified and how killing Arabs is ok. Nearly every day I have to suffer through their horrific propaganda. I understand I have everything to gain yet I refuse to gain from the suffering of 9,000 civilian deaths.
That’s good for you. As an American who has spent months in multiple Muslim countries in the Middle East, then let me say this to you.
You and I have common ground in that we would both vehemently and violently condemn the atrocities committed by Israelis. The massacres of Muslims in the past century, attacks by them on their own allies, and the murder and torture of Palestinians by Jewish settlers. Israel has blood on its hands. It’s a failure of righteousness to forget and ignore the atrocities committed by Israel just because they’re an “ally”. Netanyahu, the leadership of Likud, and most of its politicians should be imprisoned for life at the very least.
But, that changes nothing about how ignorant you personally are of history and the situation in the Middle East. I do not have to be an Israeli to read extensively on the history of the region and to understand morality and context. The only morally correct outcome here is a two-state solution. Israel is the the only party in this conflict that has genuinely pursued this solution.
The harsh and vile reality is that some Palestinians have supported peace for decades, but they are ruled over by a majority that opposes peace. There was a geopolitical fork in the road decades ago, and the international community chose the fork where they left “self-determination” up to the violent murderers in charge of Palestine. Israel has an obligation to put the lives of its own citizens over the lives of others; just as you have an obligation to put the lives of anyone you have responsibility for over someone who would take them. It’s tragic that children die. But the greater tragedy is that the UN and other nations could have stopped this decades ago and were too cowardly to do so.
I’m not going to give you a history lesson. It’s up to you to do your own research and come to the right conclusion.
You aren’t wrong, but I can tell you’re smart enough to make your point without rule 3 ad hominem attacks.
The fact that you’re citing Gaza having a coastline as evidence that it’s not an open-air prison, without mentioning that Isreal controls those waters and does not allow Palestinian use of them (aside from small-scale fishing) tell me that you have no idea what the fuck you’re talking about.
Educate yourself before telling people to educate themselves. You’re spouting bullshit and look a fool.
And why does Israel control and inspect what aid they can that enters Gaza? Cause they’re just fucking dicks? Can’t Egypt or the UN just ship in aid from the Egyptian border or with their own naval assets? Why do you think they choose not to?
Educate yourself on how Hamas uses aid material to build rockets to hit Israel. You’re spouting bullshit and making a fool out of yourself.
Ok, so you’re not saying Gaza isn’t an open-air prison, you’re just defending why it should be one. Cool.
What a load of horse shit lmao.
They ain’t wrong lmao
cool story bro 😎
👉😎👉
Surprise: It’s not. They’re giving them less than the amount they need not to starve.
So, who’s responsibility is it to feed them?
Is it Egypt’s since they were the previous owners of the land before Israel took it in a war started by Egypt? How about the UN? It’s not like they literally have an entire organization whose sole purpose is to provide aid to the Palestinians.
Oh? It’s solely Israel? Israel is solely responsible for the welfare of a people where the majority want to genocide them? Not Egypt or the UN? Not Hamas? Not the PLO? Only Israel?
Either put some fucking pressure on your own country and the UN to step the fuck up and provide real aid, or fuck off.
Their military occupiers, Israel. Or maybe the people blockading them and actually controlling how much aid goes in and how much they can import (with their meagre economy since they’re not allowed to export their goods), which is also Israel. Maybe the people who actually created the current situation and actively worked to maintain it so Palestinians can’t have peace—you guessed it, Israel.
Aside for some areas in North Gaza, Israel doesn’t occupy the Gaza Strip, and hasn’t for decades.
Then why is the Gaza strip considered to be occupied by the UN?
1 nation one vote combine with a European history of hating Jews and Gypsies.
That’s… well… an original opinion, at least.
Egypt also could provide help, but for some “strange reason” they do not want. All the countries that cheered on October 7th and supposedly support Palestine, won’t provide any help beyond weapons. They don’t give damn, their goal is to kill Jews, and if Palestinians die in the process, hey that’s “even better”.
I’m sorry, but I think you forgot to read my post and any of the links I sarcastically provided. Let me just copy and paste it below for you. Just trying to help a smoothbrain tankie out since you don’t seem to understand the concepts of the international aid, ports, and land borders.
How about this: It’s solely unrwas responsibility, but anyone who specifically bombs unrwa resources has to take over fully?
How about this. It’s the responsibility of the government in charge, Hamas to consider the feeding and care of it’s citizens as a part of its war plan with its neighbors.
Given that the plans that government arranged for are being thwarted by Israel, it seems they are taking steps to reassert their ability to feed their people. I don’t think that’s the best solution here, that Hamas keeps attacking Israel, so I’m looking elsewhere. If you’re content with the way Hamas handles things, by all means, leave them with no humanitarian support or other options.
Personally, I think it’s the responsibility of the major powers in the UN. We all contributed to how fucked up this situation is. Even if we didn’t, it’d still be the right thing to do.
I just point this shit out and troll because tankies want to try and put the blame on Israel and get triggered when anyone tries to put the blame on any other country by actually using logic and history. Regardless, providing aid is just the right thing to do and it’s the responsibility of the UNRWA to ensure their services aren’t used by terrorists to support their efforts to kill Israelis.
All aid has to be approved and funneled through Israel. Remember the freedom floatilla?
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Well it’s kind of their responsibility, since you ask, since they’re completely blockading them. Otherwise it’s undeniably genocidal mass starvation.
Removed for rule three. You can disagree without ad hominem attacks.