• Xanthrax@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Tbf, he should abdicate to a younger Democrat. I don’t want to “settle for Joe”.

    I was pissed when Bernie Sanders had the rug pulled out from under him.

    I really want to consolidate, but not under Joe Biden.

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I want change. I want new ideas. Progress and solutions. Biden has been in government for over fifty years- most of that in the senate for over 40 years.

      He’s been a senator longer than I’ve been alive

      It’s not a question of age. It’s a question of stagnation.

      • CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I’ll take stagnation over fascism. What is the short term plan? I mean, what happens if the orange blob snakes his way back in because the purity ponies and the “independents” stomped their feet and had a hissy?

        If that guy and his cohort get back in, it is most likely over for real elections in America.

    • LordR@kbin.social
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      7 months ago

      Then vote for someone else in the primaries. But as soon as it is the general election it is either the democrat or fascism. Even if you don’t vote at all, it will just strengthen the fascist party.

      • cmbabul@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        You’re right about what we have to do, but are we even having primaries this time? Because of how the primary process was scheduled in 2020 Biden had the nomination all but locked up by the time I got to vote in them. I’m 100% voting for Biden, you can look into my comments and find me admonishing some asshole advocating for third party presidential candidates over Biden. But I do understand the frustration with having to vote again for someone I didn’t want the first time and isn’t representative of the direction I want the country to move in besides not wanting to be in a fascist theocracy.

        • LordR@kbin.social
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          7 months ago

          That is a fair point. The primary system as well as the election system as a whole should probably reformedbut that is nearly impossible without flipping a lot of States.

          I’m from Switzerland and we had a similar voting system for a long time. It was only changed by implementing more ways for the populace to directly decide about matters in both the Cantons (States) and Switzerland as a whole. So this might be a good way to implement change as it gives people a specific matter to vote on.

          In Switzerland it was made possible by populists that wanted a more direct democracy.
          So I hope something like this is possible for the US as well as many things like legalized weed, abortion access, a good health insurance system or voting reforms often have a stable majority among the voters, they just don’t vote accordingly.

          • cmbabul@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            I hope so too, at this point I’m at a loss, based on my general observations about my country as a whole I don’t see any way that the changes the world desperately needs will happen because of the structure of our government alongside the culture of individualism that has led to the communal alienation we have for each other now. I don’t like how hopeless I’ve become but looking at things from a high level things are pretty bleak

          • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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            7 months ago

            The primaries are mostly determined by the parties. There will be a primary this year in New Hampshire where only the Republican result counts, because they Democrats reordered their primary schedule so New Hampshire wasn’t first and New Hampshire has a law saying they must hold theirs first. So their vote will happen but just doesn’t count.

            In the end it’s the parties that decide who their nominee will be, by the rules they make up, so that’s where reform needs to happen.

            • LordR@kbin.social
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              7 months ago

              Then vote for politicans that you think will change that or advocate for direct democracy, join a union, strike there are many ways to get more political influence!

              • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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                7 months ago

                I’m not responding to say it can’t change, I’m explaining you how the primary half of the problem works. Changing a private organization is potentially easier than changing a law, but at the same time does not have a definite method of voting on it.

      • kttnpunk@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        The electoral college decides who takes office. I vote third party because the popular vote doesn’t mean shit, in most states and I want to do my part to show, statistically, that the democrats need to move left. We can’t have two far-right parties in control of this country, and so long as they’re running with Biden that’s what they are.

        • LordR@kbin.social
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          7 months ago

          Even in Europe the Democrats wouldn’t be considered to be far right. They are a big tent party spanning from center to left.

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            7 months ago

            I have to disagree strongly with that first part, but of course that’s what they want people across the world to think- there is very little room for leftists in practice.

        • LordR@kbin.social
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          7 months ago

          You should learn more about fascists then because that is obviously wrong.

    • The Snark Urge@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I want to vote to change the voting system. We deserve to vote for who we trust with the job rather than against the candidate we fear most.

      I have to compartmentalize pretty hard each election cycle. I wish I had time to campaign for a voting system change, but I haven’t.

    • Neato@kbin.social
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      7 months ago

      That would nearly guarantee a win for Trump. Incumbency advantage is strong as is name recognition. I don’t like Biden either but he’s better than a literal fascist. If Trump wins in 2024 there will not be an election in 2028.

    • GladiusB@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      It won’t work. Conceding the already filled chair is seen as a weakness and they will parade that thought around. We know better, but they will not let the Dems live it down. It’s the Dem nomination in 28 that matters. This year is Joe and maybe Trump. Depending on the stupidity of the Reps.

    • Hominine@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      More of this nonsense. Spent a fair bit of time on Reddit explaining to folks that few young people turned out for Bernie in the primary. That space was/is replete with apologists digging every conspiracy out of the book instead of acknowledging that Biden simply drew the most votes. And then of course there’s a bit of obviousness that never gets addressed: Trump handing Bernie his ass.

      Here we are again. Where are the primary voters? Seems a handful of people care to make noise over the results but only a fraction of that number even care to turn out for them. What does turn out is that most people don’t end up giving a fuck about voting anything but the presidential election.

      I’m sure the collective delusion feels good to immerse oneself in though.

      • Why9@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        There was no Biden to begin with. Bernie starts gaining traction and then, what? Biden comes out of the woodwork at the 11th hour to split the dem vote and gets bankrolled to prevent a far-left and progressive democrat party. Yeah, he was running on donations from the public, but he was absolutely gaining traction. He absolutely was sabotaged.

        • slackassassin@sh.itjust.works
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          7 months ago

          Yes? Biden won a lot of moderate states on Super Tuesday, and then a bunch of milque toast candidates dropped out and endorsed the same. Sanders strategy was to gain momentum in the early bellwether and had some success. It just didn’t translate country wide, and South Carolina showed the beginning of that pretty clearly.

          • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            It’s neat how red states get to decide who our nominee is. South Carolina should not be a kingmaker. They are not indicative of what a state that helps us in the general acts like.

            We wonder why we keep winning the popular vote and losing the electoral college.

            • slackassassin@sh.itjust.works
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              7 months ago

              The kingmaker idea is why the Bernie campaign focused so heavily on Iowa and New Hampshire. And South Carolina, actually. And I totally agree, the primaries should all be on the same day.

      • MagicShel@programming.dev
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        7 months ago

        There were shenanigans to sink Bernie’s ship. That being said, while I’d have been happy with him, there’s no way he could’ve won looking at the map in hindsight. So I’m glad because Biden is better than another four years of Trump.

        You’re 100% correct that all the enthusiasm online didn’t turn out young voters in the primary, and all the complaints about old people winning elections are mostly from the same demographic that didn’t turn out to vote. They turned out in slightly greater numbers than usual but there is an untapped well of political power to change things if young people actually got each other to vote.

      • Deceptichum@kbin.social
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        7 months ago

        And time and time again you people refuse to look at the collusion against him by the DNC.

        What he could have achieved if the party and media had worked with him instead of against him is anyone’s guess, but he did an amazing job in spite of them.

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          7 months ago

          Who tf is “you people”? What makes you think this person is unaware of the blatant smear campaign against Bernie?

  • CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Here’s the thing - what is the viable alternative? We are talking the orange blob otherwise, which means fascism, and the end of democracy in this nation.

    Is Biden perfect? Of course not. Is he too old? Yeah, most likely. All the purity ponies and the so-called “independents” that are setting us up for another “win” (EC only) of the orange blob are not really thinking this through…

    • MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      This is where I’m at. Biden is not my preferred candidate, but I don’t see a better alternative stepping up. Witmer, Newsome, Shapiro, etc have all opted not to run. Joe Biden is the strongest candidate running for president that can and has beat Trump, end of story. I’d love to live in a world where I can vote for a young progressive in the 2024 general election, but we simply don’t live in that world. The focus should be on pushing Biden to the left, not complaining that he’s taking the place of some imagined candidate that doesn’t exist.

      • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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        7 months ago

        Witmer, Newsome, Shapiro, etc have all opted not to run.

        They’ve opted not to challenge Biden, that doesn’t mean if he stepped aside we’d just have some nobody. Unfortunately he really is the decision point on whether we’re stuck with him, and people who become president aren’t known for their propensity to fade into the background and let someone else take charge.

    • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I want to preface this by saying I’m voting for Biden.

      All the purity ponies and the so-called “independents” that are setting us up for another “win” (EC only) of the orange blob are not really thinking this through…

      So, those people still exist. The party still needs their votes. Browbeating ain’t gonna bring them on board. Is the party going to try appealing to them, or does it prefer Dictator Trump to lowering itself to treating the left like valued constituents?

      I’m voting for Biden. But I’m also disappointed that the stuff he ran on was gleefully jettisoned by the congress that he said would work with him because of his experience. The people who are happy that minimum wage stayed put and most of BBB was gutted are now turning around and being like “vote for us! you have no choice!” and it looks for all the world like they’re taking advantage of the situation.

      People are giving up. Out of apathy, out of disgust, because they feel betrayed. Fuck, I’m voting for Biden and I’m feeling apathetic, disgusted, and betrayed.

      Biden has 11 months to turn this around. His supporters who are demanding unquestioning happiness from everyone who has been let down by this administration aren’t moving that needle in the direction that gets him re-elected. But damn, does it feel good to browbeat people who see what’s coming if the party doesn’t alter course.

      This last sentence is the fourth time I’m going to mention that I’m voting for Biden, and I expect all four will be ignored.

      • AnarchoSnowPlow@midwest.social
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        7 months ago

        Another Biden voter here:

        Member the democratic primary when Joe threatened to beat up somebody questioning his (questionable as hell) record?

        I member.

        People don’t get it, like fuck Biden. Fuck trump more, of course, but fuck Biden. And fuck all these people who want you to spoon the shit soup in with a smile.

        They did the same thing to us this time as they do every time. They lied to get us to vote for them then turned around and feigned helplessness when we demanded they actually follow through.

        It feels like our choices are “dark path that leads to widespread political violence” or “dark path that continues existing political violence on a smaller scale.”

      • CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        My comment is not really aimed at people that are voting for Biden, while recognizing his issues. I’m in the same camp. Do I want a more progressive candidate? Yes. Do I wish the Democratic Party was much more progressive than it is? Hell yes.

        My comment is about people that are either too cynical/too pure and insist they are going to remain “above it all” by either bowing out entirely, or throwing their vote away on ridiculous third party candidates. Or even worse, voting for donnie in the hope of some accelerationist BS fantasy that is going to put leftists in the seat of power, somehow.

        I’m not sure if I’m more sick of that type, or the entirely low-info that keep claiming, no matter what the facts are, that “the economy is terrible”, so it doesn’t really matter who wins (and will vote for donnie in some cases, because “Biden is old” or some other fiddly irrelevant nonsense). All I know is that between these two types, our country is hanging in the balance…

    • mochisuki@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      The alternative is PRIMARY HIM. That ass doesn’t deserve our vote and his hubris that he will get it no matter what is driving this country into a game of chicken with madness. He must retire and the only way he will listen is if we credibly refuse to support him NOW

      • Heir_Of_Isildur@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Didn’t he initially say he was going to be a one termer? If so, he should keep his word. Either way, he should be primaries.

    • DAMunzy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      7 months ago

      How many times do we have to keep voting for the lesser evil. The more years I’ve been doing this the more voting for the lesser evil I hear.

      • GaMEChld@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Until the people who don’t want the job are so fed up with how it’s being done that they take the job themselves.

        That’s some of what sets apart an earnest politician from a corrupt one.

        Personally, I think society would benefit if I got into politics. But I have so much work to do on my personal life that I don’t have anything left to give. Maybe someday when I am on more sure footing, I can throw my hat in the ring and start getting involved in small scale local politics to see if I have any chops for it, but I don’t know when that might be.

        If we keep asking why are all these people in charge assholes, I have to ask, well why don’t you run for office then?

        And the sad reality seems to be that it’s only the people comfortable and stable enough in life that they have the security and freedom to get into politics. Those people tend to be wealthier people they are also older. And that is not a demographic that is very representative of the teeming masses.

        But hell, we barely even vote in this country. Other countries put us to shame when considering voter turnout. Voting should be the absolute bare minimum level of effort.

      • oatscoop@midwest.social
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        7 months ago

        Until people get pissed off enough to start being politically active and not just passive participants in the process. When the “high bar” is merely “showing up to vote after glancing over the candidates” what do people expect?

        Get involved in local politics. Volunteer for candidates that reflect your actual ideals – or run for a local office yourself. Actually talk to other voters about issues, form coalitions to do something about it. Annoy the shit out of your elected officials and hold them accountable. Be loud, be pissed off, and use that energy to do something other than complain on social media about it.

        Anyone that actually wants change needs to realize it requires being and active participant in politics. The problem is most people don’t because it’s frequently frustrating, disheartening, and exhausting work just for minor change. That it’s not a march towards a better future, but a thankless slog on top of just trying to survive.

    • ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works
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      7 months ago

      Politics is a process. This is the time where the parties (all two) have to sort out their policy platform and the candidates to run on that platform.

      So it isn’t just about it being Biden, let alone Trump. The “alternative” can also include a Biden actually pivoting to a different, more popular set of policies. He could even get some mileage on the things he ran on in 2020 and has barely moved on since, like public healthcare option or a minimum wage increase.

      The bigger problem is Biden now has a 3 term track record in the White House snubbing progressive policy.

      He can’t promise anything anymore, he has to actually deliver, and he is running out of time, if he hasn’t already. (He most likely has.)

    • ryathal@sh.itjust.works
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      7 months ago

      Trump flavored candidates have done terribly in almost every election since, pretending Trump winning is a forgone conclusion is doomer rhetoric.

      • PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        Then you’re too high on your own privilege or too far up the ass of someone who is to be a reliable tell of anyone.

  • gastationsushi@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Biden started out well in 21 and 22 because he tried to appeal to his progressive base. That being said, Biden is a fucking moron if he believes his neolib pivot didn’t hurt his poll numbers.

    It’s not too late, Biden needs to pivot back to progressive policies instead of this blame the voters BS like Hillary tried. Blame leaders, not voters.

    • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      So, you have a choice. a less than perfect candidate, or someone who has already endorsed the idea of suspending the Constitution and A-bombing Palestine.

        • Dagwood222@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          Why? When have you ever had a perfect candidate? I like what NYC ex-mayor Ed Koch said. “If you agree with me 51% of the time, vote for me. If you agree with me 100% of the time, see a doctor.”

            • Kleinbonum@feddit.de
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              7 months ago

              Yeah, but in a first-past-the-post system, you don’t.

              Is that complete and utter crap, should the FPTP system be launched into the sun and replaced with a system that actually gave people choices, would a parliamentary system be better, is the Electorate College just an abomination based on a compromise with long dead slave owners, should every vote carry the same weight?

              Well, there you go.

              But in the current system, you’ll only ever have two choices.

              So choose wisely.

                • Flambo@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  How many times in U.S. History have the 3rd or 4th options been elected to the office of President? When the answer is zero, how do you count them as options?

                  You are literally more likely to win the lottery than you are to elect a third party to U.S. President.

  • xenomor@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    It says a lot that this piece doesn’t even acknowledge Biden’s advocacy for Israel’s genocide as any kind of factor in his sinking support.

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      7 months ago

      Trump’s people think Biden is holding back and that we should be assisting Israel even more. There are Evangelicals who believe that we should nuke the whole Middle East to bring about the end times.

      I really don’t see not voting for Biden

    • Fades@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      That’s on purpose, conservative leaning media has been pushing the Hamas Israel conflict whenever possible but it’s fuckin crickets when Joe fucking Biden and blinken actually pull out a cease fire and hostage swap, with more to come.

      They just want Donald back to up their clicks as everyone wakes up and sees what wild fascist bs he has done that day.

      And you better believe the hill is conservative owned and biased. Just look at how they behaved during the dark years

      Beyond his relationship with Solomon, Trump, and Giuliani, Finkelstein (Hill owner) was Solomon’s direct supervisor at The Hill and created the conditions which permitted Solomon to publish his conspiratorial stories without the traditional oversight implemented at news outlets. And he has kept a watchful eye on the newspaper’s coverage to ensure it is not too critical of the President.

  • Fades@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    fuck the hill, right wing owned and biased trash

    Just look at the word they chose for the title, implying they are just shouting down any dissent at all. Fuck these media fascist lovers

    Another example: https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/18/media/jimmy-finkelstein-the-hill-ukraine/index.html

    Beyond his relationship with Solomon, Trump, and Giuliani, Finkelstein (owner) was Solomon’s direct supervisor at The Hill and created the conditions which permitted Solomon to publish his conspiratorial stories without the traditional oversight implemented at news outlets. And he has kept a watchful eye on the newspaper’s coverage to ensure it is not too critical of the President.

  • Zaktor@sopuli.xyz
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    7 months ago

    Except for Tom Daschle who gave a pretty non-committal response, the names in this article seem like nobodies. Why are the statements of random consultants a news story? Who cares what the “deputy campaign manager for John Kerry’s 2004 presidential run” or a “senior policy adviser at Holland & Knight and former senior policy adviser to Vice President Harris” says?

    I sure hope these aren’t the names that come up when someone asks “who are Biden’s closest allies”.

  • AutoTL;DR@lemmings.worldB
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    7 months ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:


    But some Democrats say comments like Axelrod’s aren’t helping especially as Biden continues to face poor polling numbers, encouraging the party to instead coalesce around the president to give him a boost.

    That followed a New York Times and Siena College poll earlier this month that found Trump leading Biden in critical battleground states.

    Senate Democrats are also now pushing back hard on criticism from within their own party, dismissing concerns about Biden’s electability as counterproductive.

    Messina, Obama’s 2012 campaign manager, has been an advocate for Biden on social media, posting on X this week, “Polls a year out are about as good at predicting election results as a magic 8 ball would be.” Plouffe, Obama’s 2008 campaign manager, has long warned against Democrats ‘bedwetting’ and worrying about political outcomes.

    Meanwhile, independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has been polling with a high favorability in recent surveys, which some find problematic.

    The campaign has a year to show voters the difference they’ve made and the significant legislative success over the first term, amidst extreme odds,” Nelson said.


    The original article contains 1,223 words, the summary contains 178 words. Saved 85%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

  • PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee
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    7 months ago

    Brocialists being dragged kicking and screaming even to vote for their own guy in the primary then wonder why the policy heads pivot right towards independents who will actually turn out to vote.

    Ultra Lefties being the self righteous collaborators with fascists since Weimar and the Spanish Civil War.

    May those of us who actually need solidarity die quickly and quietly so they can feel oh so cathartic for “avenging” us.

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        7 months ago

        I would but the brocialists vote striking so damn much means I can’t afford healthcare to get better! Even in the fucking primaries against the candidates in favor of fully public medicine!

  • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    If you don’t like Joe Biden, they only way to tell the Democratic party to change is by voting for Jill Stein.

    They will keep sabotaging the primaries to get trash like Joe Biden until you leave and make them change.

    • ComradeWeebelo@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      This type of mentality is how Trump gets re-elected. And it’s looking more and more like it will be the end of democracy in the US if that happens.

      • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        No, Joe Biden is how Trump can get re-elected. This wouldn’t be a problem if you didn’t vote for terrible candidates like Joe Biden in the first place.

        • Depress_Mode@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Last time was literally a choice between Biden and Trump. You’re saying by voting in the guy who wasn’t Trump, we gave Trump the presidency? So, we should have simply allowed him to win with his highly mobilized and motivated supporters? That’s a brilliant strategy, I wonder how that would have played out. Surely, an awesome third option would have magically appeared at the last second and won it all, right? Like, what do you even want from people? You don’t like Trump, but you also don’t like when people vote against him. If people hadn’t voted Biden in, though, we’d already be in another Trump presidency right now.

          It sounds like what you’re advocating is that we had a better front-runner than Biden in the first place, one so amazing that they’d obviously blow Trump right out of the water. I also want that, but we didn’t/don’t and we as voters have no control over who runs, that’s just wishful thinking. Yes, we should have better candidates. Where are they? In the meantime, we have no choice but to take the reality that we have, even if it means biting our tongues and voting for Biden again. It will once again come down to Biden vs Trump and to let Trump run away with this one would be a big mistake.

          • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            You’re saying by voting in the guy who wasn’t Trump, we gave Trump the presidency?

            Nope. You’re always keeping Republicans in contention by allowing Democrats to take advantage of you. Dems will change once they have to, until then you’ll get more Biden like candidates. You really want Buttigieg next? That’s what you’ll get unless you vote for someone else.

            • Depress_Mode@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              And yet, for everyone to sit back and not vote for Biden would be to allow Trump to win, a much bigger deal than possibly being taken advantage of in some vague and nebulous way. Are you so upset at the DNC that you’d accept fascism as an alternative? As awful as Trump is, the GOP is largely united behind him and rabidly loyal to him. You aren’t going to beat them by splitting the vote and bringing in relative unknowns. I’m registered Green myself, but Stein got 1.1% of the vote in 2016 and less than half that in 2020. They’ve never won a single national election, never even a single seat in Congress. As great as it would be, there is just no way the Green Party will be able to pull something like that off.

              In the face of an intolerable and catastrophic alternative such as Trump, Biden not being amazingly popular unfortunately means we actually have to act more decisively in support of him instead of less. I’m not saying you have to like him, but this is perhaps one of the most important elections of our lifetimes and worse yet, the outcome is far from certain. If Trump wins, being able to say, “Well, at least I didn’t vote for Biden!” would be a very hollow victory.

              • goldenlocks@lemmy.world
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                7 months ago

                Are you so upset at the DNC that you’d accept fascism as an alternative?

                Heard this same old story every 4 years my entire life. It’s starting to not work anymore, just look at Biden’s polling. People are realizing its a scam.

                • Depress_Mode@lemmy.world
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                  7 months ago

                  As long as Trump is running, that’s the reality, though. Trump is nothing like any GOP candidate that’s ever run in anyone’s life. If anything, he seems worse now than he did in 2016. The 2025 plan is an open document from the Trump team about how the right can seize power forever. In just a few short years, he’s completely transformed the GOP into something utterly unrecognizable. If you can’t see that, you’re just being willfully ignorant. To treat him as an ordinary republican is to legitimize him. Hopefully he loses this time and drops dead before the next election, but it’s far too close to say that he won’t win this time.

                  It’s that polling I’m talking about. It’s a critically close race and even as unpopular as Biden is, I’d still take him over Trump any day and there isn’t a single other viable candidate. He’ll still need people to vote for him, though. For everything that people don’t like about Biden, Trump is even worse and people seem to have forgotten that. With less than a year to go and everyone who isn’t Trump or Biden getting little support, our choices are already laid out for us. As nice as it would be to have a “neither” vote option, we don’t have that luxury. This is could easily shape up to be a repeat of the 2016 election and the only way to fight it is to vote against Trump, whoever that may be. It sucks, but that’s the system we exist in. Every potential voter who abstains only makes a Trump victory more likely, given how strong Trump’s position is. We’re given the choice between the lesser of two evils and to say “I don’t care” doesn’t actually teach anyone a lesson. You might not care, but there are many people whose lives would be made measurably worse if Trump were to succeed.

  • EmoBean@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    I only voted for Biden because it was against Trump. I cannot believe with both being near 80, and one facing life in prison, we’re doing this same shit again. I don’t care. I’m not voting. Give me any reason this makes my life better. Otherwise, let it burn.

    • LordR@kbin.social
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      7 months ago

      Reason number 1: You don’t want to live in a hellish dictatorship.

      You have two options here: vote for an old guy who did some good stuff or actively or passively vote for fascism.

      • CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Yeah, but he’s old, and he’s not the purity pony that I wanted!!!

        So…both sides are just as bad! Let it burn!

        /s

        • LordR@kbin.social
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          7 months ago

          Then vote for people who think the same or if you live in a state that allows the population to introduce laws start that process.

      • EmoBean@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I do not care. It’s hell either way. If anything, the only other option besides hellish dictatorship been promised is not as hellish but slower burning dictatorship.

        What ever happen to that student loan forgiveness. Gonna run on that again. Oh I promised last time but this time I pinky promise no take backsies cross my heart.

        Fuck off. Let it burn.

        • LordR@kbin.social
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          7 months ago

          You do realise that if more people would have voted for democrats, student loan loan forgivness would have been granted?

          But yeah, a society without any social safety net, without rights for minorities, with a stupid state religion and 1000 other horrible things is just as bad as people who in the best case change things and worst case don’t make the US worse.

          • Sybil@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            if more people would have voted for democrats, student loan loan forgivness would have been granted

            you can’t prove that.

            • LordR@kbin.social
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              7 months ago

              No I can’t. But you can’t prove that they wouldn’t either.

              With more democrats DC could be a state for example (Biden approves of that), abortian access could be written in law and student loans could be partially forgiven.
              But unless you vote, we will never know.

              What I know is that Biden DID something about student loans though. For example there is a new repayment plan that does not allow any interest and therefore allows to actually pay off your student loans.
              But yeah, that’s probably norhing acording to you.

        • CharlesDarwin@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          It will be so much worse under fascism. You might not be wild about Biden but if the alternative is fascism…when you say let it burn, that means a lot - and I mean a lot - of people will be harmed, most likely including you.

    • PoastRotato@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Attitudes like this honestly piss me off more than conservatives. You didn’t get the options you wanted, so you decided to just give up, take your ball, and go home. Grow the hell up. We don’t quit just because shit looks bleak, we keep on pushing until we can see the sun poking through the clouds, because that is the only way we will ever see it. If we give in to despair now, we will never get there. Even if it seems pointless, or like things aren’t getting better, I can guarantee you it can always, ALWAYS be worse. And THAT is your reason to vote.

      I’m sorry if that reason isn’t as optimistic as you were hoping for, but that’s the reality that we live in. And it will never get better if we just bitch about unfairness and bury our heads in the sand. If we want things to get better, we need to make them better. And that starts with you. Please, be better than this. I know you have it in you.

        • LordR@kbin.social
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          7 months ago

          Then get everyone you know to vote, join a union, organize, strike in the worst case. Voting is not your only option.

        • PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee
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          7 months ago

          And for the people for whom that difference is life and death, your apathy is nothing short of collaboration in their murder.

          • Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social
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            7 months ago

            People will die no matter what I choose. They’ll die from failed abortions in Texas or they’ll die from Israeli bombs in Gaza. The world is shit and have gotten worse despite me voting as often as I can.

            • PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee
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              7 months ago

              And yet it will get even worse if you don’t, and it will be your fault for not doing so.

              When you have the choice between bad and not as bad, letting bad win puts the responsibility for that on your shoulders.

              You don’t get to call yourself an ally if you don’t commit to the work of harm mitigation.

              If you choose to not even do the minimum amount of work of solidarity, you are the white moderate Dr. King railed about in Birmingham.

              All the frilly talk of supporting the cause with none of the action to back it up. Having to be bullied shamed and yelled at for the soul crushing Herculean task of standing in a line to fill a form out.

      • EmoBean@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I do not care. You’re bitching more than I am. Grow up and live your life free of internet nonsense like I am.