- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- news@lemmy.world
The Medical University of South Carolina initially said it wouldn’t be affected by a law banning use of state funds for treatment “furthering the gender transition” of children under 16. Months later, it cut off that care to all trans minors.
One Saturday morning in September 2022, Terrence Steyer, the dean of the College of Medicine at the Medical University of South Carolina, placed an urgent call to a student. Just a year prior, the medical student, Thomas Agostini, had won first place at a university-sponsored event for his graduate research on transgender pediatric patients. He also had been featured in a video on MUSC’s website highlighting resources that support the LGBTQ+ community.
Now, Agostini and his once-lauded study had set off a political firestorm. Conservative activists seized on one line in particular in the study’s summary — a parenthetical noting the youngest transgender patient to visit MUSC’s pediatric endocrinology clinic was 4 years old — and inaccurately claimed that children that young were prescribed hormones as part of a gender transition. Elon Musk amplified the false claim, tweeting, “Is it really true that four-year-olds are receiving hormone treatment?” That led federal and state lawmakers to frantically ask top MUSC leaders whether the public hospital was in fact helping young children medically transition. The hospital was not; its pediatric transgender patients did not receive hormone therapy before puberty, nor does it offer surgical options to minors.
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Dear people who tell LGBT+ people that we shouldn’t care what some right-wing nutters think:
This is why we have to care. What they think does affect us, unfortunately.
Someone here the other day had the gall to tell me that Trump didn’t do anything to oppress LGBT+ people.
They were strangely silent after I showed them this: https://www.hrc.org/news/the-list-of-trumps-unprecedented-steps-for-the-lgbtq-community
Gaslight <–
Obstruct
Project
Makes a shit ton more sense than Grand Old Party.
I was going to participate in a navy program that would put me through med school. Then Trump decided to ban folks like me from the military.
As an older trans person, things were better for us before he was in office. It’s exhausting hearing one’s existence debated every fucking day, by folks who have zero idea what they’re talking about. It wasn’t illegal for me to piss at work in 2015, it is now.
I’m an adult trans man who has been on testosterone for more than a decade now, and it’s a fight to stay on my medication. I almost want to live in this fantasy world where doctors just hand out hormones and blockers like candy. But most doctors are terrified - all it takes is your hospital ending up on LibsOfTiktok or something and it’s time for the bomb threats. My medical provider is one of the few that hasn’t left my state, and if he leaves I’m fucked.
Man, I’m sorry to hear that. Absolutely fucked that our medical care and career prospects and even just taking a shit can be destroyed because some Evangelical assholes somewhere feel weird in their pants about us or are so piss scared of their kids learning that they have to indoctrinate them
Sorry, that’s so wack. I hope your situation remains stable.
These are stupid people.
There’s an absolute moron down the road here from me who, despite it being 2023, has a large sign on his business (a small factory) that says “Trump 2020: For All Workers.”
Dude spent four years turning federal worker protections into a regular horror show. Every couple of weeks, some basic worker protection or another came under attack. I saw it for myself.
My dude, Trump tried to bring back asbestos.
Sounds like the business owner probably knows Trumps is bad for workers, but good for business.
Until he becomes a business owner who Trump owes money to, and then it’s all LeopardsAteMyFace.
It’s always “just ignore it, words can’t hurt you” until people listen to those words and vote/take action.
No, words matter very much, actually. In fact, I would say words, and language, is the very basis of our civilization. Without language, there would have been nothing.
I wonder what the same people criticizing trans health care as “mutilation of children” think of intersex babies having genital surgery forced upon them to align their genitals with gender binary ideals.
And just before anyone has a chance to say it, trans healthcare for teens is okay despite them not being able to consent because if they don’t choose then one of the options is going to be forced upon them if they don’t act quickly.
It’s more like a child standing on train tracks with a train speeding toward them and the child expressing that they’d like to get out of the way while people telling them “No! You’re not old enough to make that decision!”
Or how about just circumcision? How is that ok?
It’s not, but it happens to males, so no one cares. I certianly wasn’t consulted about it, and have only been ridiculed when I’ve suggested it should have been my choice.
You’re ridiculed because everyone knows that 99% of men wouldn’t choose to be circumcised if they had to do it as an adult. Yet because we do it to babies it’s fine.
I would choose it. Chose it for my kids. So…
wow we found one in the wild (no offense). But seriously I would like to know, why not give your kids the chance to decide for themselves as well?
A number of reasons. The whole “well just wash” thing kind of presumes a certain quality of life and access to hygiene that isn’t guaranteed–my doctor’s opinion on this was informed by his experience in the jungle in Vietnam; it is more hygienic that washing, as obviously soap and water doesn’t remove all bacteria and fungus that live on the skin, especially in folds or crevices; it’s a surface that goes right over the top of an open orifice, so the risk of infection really isn’t something to leave to chance as to whether or not you’ll finish the day with a hot shower and soap; adult circumcision requires open wound care protocol, which carries its own risk of infection, in a very sensitive area, prone to healing complications, whereas babies have veritable superhuman healing powers and it heals in a few days with Vaseline; as a baby it’s a basically an outpatient dermatological procedure, as an adult it’s an actual surgery, with much greater risks of complications. It’s a no brainer; it was recommended by every doctor we asked, who all considered it a no brainer. I know you can find anything online but the science and weighing of risks on this is makes the decision pretty clear.
The scientific evidence supporting circumcision is actually fairly unconvincing. It’s still invasive, medically unnecessary surgery, that kills ~100 babies every year. It’s also proven that their brains are impacted by the procedure and show signs of PTSD.
Literally no other health board except American ones recommend circumcision. Canada, the Netherlands, the UK, Germany, all of these countries recommend strongly against circumcision as a therapeutic treatment, as far less invasive and much more effective options exist to achieve similar or far better health benefits. Even having basic hygiene and washing your penis erases any claimed health benefits from circumcision (which were already incredibly minor). It’s literally only potentially beneficial if you don’t observe basic hygiene.
It’s also fairly unethical to make decisions regarding what is effectively mostly cosmetic surgery on a baby boy that can not consent to the procedure.
Literally almost every mammal evolved to have some kind of penile sheath. If it was truly detrimental to have a foreskin, it is highly unlikely that would have happened.
Trans women certainly care. We didn’t ask for a lot of things, but circumcision still adds insult to injury.
The awful truth is that few people want to address fucked up shit. Almost everyone suffers from something forced upon us for no good reason, so if anything we need to support one another and work to end this crap.
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Washing cleans genitalia, not surgery.
Uh, speaking as an European, your comment is completely ridiculous. It’s genital mutilation as it’s done without consent, as simple as that.
It should never be acceptable.
“bent out of shape over something you can’t even remember”
I’m pretty sure he probably remembers he’s been circumcised whenever he goes to the bathroom, takes a shower, changes his underwear…
If a person is drugged or blackout drunk is it ok to rape them if they don’t remember?
Is it ok for a parent to put tattoos on their child if they get it done while the baby is young enough not to remember?
Someone can come to terms with a situation and still be allowed to be angry about it.
don’t shame others for wanting a clean dick.
Or you could just wash it. Like normal people.
Do you also support scalping for wanting a clean head?
Yeah, what did humans do before weird crazy religious folks in the desert decided we need to cut (or even bite, 🤮) the foreskin off of a new born child? How did we survive??
Do I remember it? No, but I was born very premature and required surgery, so was not circumcised at birth. Why my father told me this story over breakfast when I was like 10, and why he thought how I screamed and cried when I finally, as he put it, “Got my pencil sharpened” was funny, I’ll never know. Do I need therapy over it? No. Is it something I wish hadn’t happened? Yes.
This is why I don’t fuck Americans. They honestly think their unwashed mutilated dicks are clean. Circumcised dicks are fine if that’s what you got, but you still have to clean them just like any other dick.
Do people really just not clean their dicks? What the fuck?
Do you believe this to be an American stereotype?
I mean, I’ve met Americans that don’t clean their dicks, so it’s not wrong, but it’s not really the norm. Sure, most people clean their dick, but if you honestly think cutting your dick up makes it cleaner, then I’m going to assume you just don’t get near it with soap and water because any dick can be cleaned with soap and water.
but if you honestly think cutting your dick up makes it cleaner, then I’m going to assume you just don’t get near it with soap and water
Yeah I’m sorry this just makes no sense.
First of all, the overwhelming number of circumcisions occur long before a person is capable of consenting to such a procedure. So I don’t think people are walking around thinking, “hey, if I cut up my dick, I won’t have to clean it anymore!”
This shit happened when I was born, I had zero choice in it. It’s absurd to make assumptions like that as if it’s a personal choice.
Second, the assumption doesn’t even make sense. Nobody has ever said or implied that circumcision is an alternative to washing your dick. That’s insane. What are your even fucking talking about??
Sounds like maybe you had one or two bad experiences with some gross, unhygienic losers, and are assuming everyone is the same. You’re dead wrong.
Is your username supposed to be misosophist?
no. I’d interpret “misosophist” as somebody who HATES wisdom/teaching/thought. I’m just playing at being a sophist who is probably more often wrong than right (including possibly with the dubious etymology of my own handle). I really didn’t put much thought into it when signing up for lemmy, though.
Fucking hell 🤮 I can smell you from over the Internet
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It isn’t. We should stop that too.
It’s only ok if it’s done without consent, don’t you know? /s
Intersex genital surgery and circumcision should not occur on children. Adults should be free to choose what they want done to their bodies.
Well they usually include exceptions or mandates for intersex “correction” surgeries in those laws so yeah that’s that.
And besides, the Hospital in the article doesn’t even do surgeries on minors, only hormone treatment. There is no mutilation involved whatsoever.
And still circumcision is ok
Obviously, that’s got the approval from God™
It’s like a child standing on train tracks with a train speeding toward them and the child expressing that they’d like to get out of the way while people telling them “No! You’re not old enough to make that decision!”
Awful analogy, even if your point is sound. We should focus on the topic at hand, instead of trying to pivot to literal life-or-death analogies. It’s a tactic people use to derail discussion instead of engage in it. Now instead of focusing on the topic at hand, we need to focus on how accurate your analogy is. It’s more fruitful to just leave the analogy at home and try to have your relevant arguments stand on their own.
Lots of people on these forums will disagree, though.
It is, in many cases, a life or death situation; maybe not as abrupt as a train hitting someone, but suicide among trans youth who are being prevented from transitioning, essentially being told that they are to stupid to know what they want, is terrifyingly high.
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The child would have to wake up and stand before the shit slide every morning.
I am amazed that health companies are not penalized for discrimination on which human beings they treat. Sorry, but that makes no sense.
the neat part is the American health care system always finds a new way of disappointing everyone.
what’s truly upsetting is that the few trans people that may need to go to that hospital for the fastest health care are going to find out the shitty way they’ve been blacklisted.
there is probably a good legal case against this misinformation but how many trans have the time and energy to fight backdoor politics?
there is probably a good legal case against this misinformation but how many trans have the time and energy to fight backdoor politics?
That’s why I give money to the ACLU
Yeah exactly, I’m trying to afford rent and stave off burnout too. I spent years doing activism but I’m almost 30 and I’m exhausted. And even when we do fight we’re a third of a percent of the population and economically disadvantaged before you take into account the expenses of transitioning (fortunately I’m past most of it, but spending my first years out of college saving up for a $20000 surgery was a serious financial hit)
And all this for what? My state government doesn’t give half a shit what we want. I’ll keep trying to vote them out but they realized they don’t even actually have to do what courts say. The courts won’t actually punish the legislature, just the state coffers if that.
Have they really been ‘blacklisted’, or are they just unable to get certain procedures done?
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Fucking THANK YOU. Louder for the folks in the back, pleaae
It can be both. There are cases of paramedics refusing to treat trans women, to the point where they die.
Doctors will also assume that any medical issue you have is due to your hormones and not treat you. I passed a kidney stone on my own because I was hurting in the “wrong” place.
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Penalized? The people in goverment are bigots who want the hospitals to discriminate.
There are constitutional guarantees that preclude it. Just needs someone to take it to court.
And a court and justice system that cares and is not part of the corrupt state that enabled this in the first place
We have Two SCOTUS justices who committed perjury during their confirmation hearings and another who has been caught accepting bribes from petitioners of the court. You’re putting an awful lot of faith in the court.
Can you tell me what you think these guarantees are?
Well if you decide that it’s religion you can hurt people by deciding that their medical care isn’t something your god approves of. And no you don’t need to find sufficient text or historical justification
Wasn’t there a case before SCOTUS where they held only “closely held beliefs” (or some shit) was allowed?
I can’t find the actual case or verbage but basically it made it possible to force, say, spaghetti monster believers to adopt laws against their beliefs. Essentially paving the way for Christian nationalism.
I think it’s because people view hormonal treatment and sex changes as different than treatment for disease or injury.
They probably view it more as cosmetic treatment, like plastic surgery.
I wouldn’t be surprised if health insurance companies in China would pull the same crap.
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Ah, but you see he can hide it behind “just asking a question”.
Such as, is it really true that Elon Musk raped and murdered a 12 year old girl in 2008 in Texas?
FTFY: Some people say how high.
The rest of us tell the idiot to go forth and multiple.
This is the private free market at work.
Fuck the free market
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Long term thinking is what is needed, the reality is that many things like space travel and even construction would be much better if we all recognised that everyone deserves access to have a holistic understanding of things, not like how it is now with engineering theory in the West, half baked practicals, and the flip side of the coin over in the East with lots of hardware availability, old textbooks, but next to no design software or systems level engineering to incorporate with. Sure it’s great to differentiate skill sets but some systems are like Babylon, the less holistic and overlapping knowledge we have, the more communication issues and short term design problems we all come across
Laws banning transition are the ‘private free market’. Got it.
What?
That’s kind of how I feel.
I was saying that the hospital succumbing to financial pressure is peak free market
The hospital was not; its pediatric transgender patients did not receive hormone therapy before puberty, nor does it offer surgical options to minors.
Yo, puberty is still pretty young; late elementary school or early middle school.
Horrible. I don’t necessarily advocate for transition as I’m personally neutral on the issue, but I will stand up for anyone seeking medical information or service, this is no longer the cave man times where men bricked each other with boulders when someone was hurt
Treating them with/for what?
Did you read more than the headline and still need to ask that?
They’re willfully using vague language because they know talking specifics weakens their argument.
It’s a pretty common tactic these days, so I always ask for specifics or point out that they are not being given.
The headline is misleading because trans teens can still be treated.
Why is asking a question suddenly “amplifying the claim”? Could they not just have answered the question? It would, in my opinion, be especially interesting to know what the 4 year old “transgender patient” was treated for.
Sealioning, harassment where a person asks questions, demands debate, or requests evidence while feigning ignorance and pretending to be civil. Elon and fascists like him don’t care about finding the truth or having an informed opinion. They want to confirm their view of “trans bad” by focusing on misrepresented half truths or outright lies. They ask questions and don’t care for a response, because they want to promote the idea that woke adults are transing kids. It’s bad faith bullshit.
They did answer the question, but the transphobes didn’t listen to it. A 4 year old visited the clinic. Nothing was said about treatment. The 4 year old could have been sent away for all we know. The most that would have happened would be discussions about the kid’s future when they do reach puberty, letting the parents know what that care would look like. Plus, the kid having documented trans identification so young will make a stronger case for them getting approved for care in the future.
The worst part about this nonsense is that allowing trans youth to have their preferred puberty would address the sports issue. If a trans girl experiences female puberty and not male puberty, she’ll have no physical advantage over cis girls in sports. The permanent increases in height and bone structure that might affect performance in some sports wouldn’t happen to her. However, it is crystal clear based on literal statements made by anti-trans activists that they don’t care about sports integrity or protecting kids. They want trans people gone, and they will use state violence to keep us from living our lives
Look truth be told, it’s understandable that many people may not like transition or certain transgender individuals, but that is no reason to deny services to them as a blanket policy
I don’t even find it justifiable to not “like” transition. For many trans people, transitioning is less of a choice and more of a required action. I personally didn’t choose to be trans and didn’t have the luxury of staying in the closet. I thought I could delay coming out, but I couldn’t. Many trans people would become suicidally depressed if forced to detransition or prevented from transitioning. Some trans people could live the rest of their lives as cis, but a ton can’t. Not liking transition is like not liking giving an antidote to someone that got poisoned. You can wish that people never get poisoned in the first place, but can’t hate the antidote itself.
It’s a fantasy to believe that we have total conscious control of our actions and desires. Anyone who’s become attracted to someone they don’t want to be attracted to should know this. “Why must I fall for such a shitty person?”
Medicalization of trans children, even those who are entering puberty or beyond, is a bad idea. There needs to be more research on the safety of puberty blockers and cross sex endogenous hormones for long term medical outcomes including cancer and heart disease risks. Once you are an adult, sure, do whatever you want to your body; but there is a different ethical consideration for minors.
Literal ignorance. There are already studies.
“GnRHa treatment did not seem to have a particularly adverse effect on reproductive function or bone growth.”
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4342775/
Puberty blockers only with social transition until age 18 are the standard of care given to the trans girl I grew up with 30 years ago. She didn’t start exogenous hormones or surgery until she was a legal adult. None of this is new and the people you’re listening to are literally just making things up.
Imagine everything about you is exactly the same, but you were born with the wrong body parts and as a result your had to spend your entire childhood pretending to be the opposite sex. It’s not just some adult choice you make like going to college, it’s you.
Your points are valid, but there are moral implications to both sides and it’s disgusting how ignorant and close-minded idiot politicians and billionaires like Musk are about it while actual medical professionals are trying their best to navigate these complex situations. No science will ever change their minds, this is an extension of an ongoing campaign against all trans people, equating them with “groomers” and dudes trying to sneak into girl locker rooms or win sports games. More distractions from the real enemies of human decency and free societies.
If I were a child now, I would potentially be pushed to be trans or NB. I was a tomboy child with a solid interest in math and science. I had a fraught childhood with a medical surgery pushed on me (it could have waited). If I were presented with this idea, maybe I would have thought it fits me, especially because at least certain segments of the trans theory/argument seems to hinge on enforcing gender roles. Turns out, I’m just a woman in STEM.
If I were a child now, I would potentially be pushed to be trans or NB.
No that’s not how that works. People aren’t “pushed” into becoming trans, let alone into a medical transition. Trans people, especially trans youths, usually have to fight tooth and nail to have their identities taken seriously, and even harder to access healthcare.
especially because at least certain segments of the trans argument seems to hinge on enforcing gender roles.
This is just such tired nonsense. I have never met a community more supportive of people breaking gender norms than transgender and non-binary people.
Any promotion of the concept of gender and gender roles in schools is a bad idea in my opinion. The “genderbread person” that pops up is one instance, and it’s discussion of gender includes gender roles: those are societal expectations of actions and characteristics.
Regarding gender roles, how do you respond to the current zeitgeist that asks if gender nonconforming women in literature and film are in fact trans? For example, Jo March in Little Women, and Mulan.
Any promotion of the concept of gender and gender roles in schools is a bad idea in my opinion.
Gender is a concept that exists. That kids will interact with throughout their lives. They deserve to be equipped with the information that helps them makes sense of that.
The “genderbread person” that pops up is one instance, and it’s discussion of gender includes gender roles: those are societal expectations of actions and characteristics.
It doesn’t include gender roles in any version that I have seen.
The closest I’ve seen it get to gender roles is “gender expression”, which it touches on to explicitly separate the concept of gendered expression, from gender identity and biological sex.
In other words, it does the exact opposite of the thing you fear that it does. Its entire purpose is to state that the things you described about yourself earlier, such as being a tomboy, are separate from gender identity and biological sex. That being a tomboy, or having interests that are stereotypically gendered, DO NOT make you that gender.
Regarding gender roles, how do you respond to the current zeitgeist that asks if gender nonconforming women in literature and film are in fact trans? For example, Jo March in Little Women, and Mulan.
Those can be interesting conversations even if the answer at the end is “they’re still cisgender”. Cisgender people have been writing gender into stories for a long time, and a lot of those stories do end up have themes very relatable for trans people. Relooking at media through a queer lens is not harmful.
Any promotion of the concept of gender and gender roles is a bad idea imo.
I wholeheartedly agree with what you said there! (even if it might not be what you meant)
We should treat children (and people at large) as neutrally as possible and wait for them to decide for themselves.
Like no expressed expectations, just some tools to understand who they are :)
Gender and gender roles have always been there, what’s promoted is understanding of these concepts and self determination.
Genderbread person
What’s the issue with that?
It’s pretty neutral and just defines some terms (sex, gender identity, gender expression, romantic and sexual attraction) and not much more imho.
Regarding gender roles…
To me this feels as a non-issue. Trans folks don’t have much in terms of representation. It’s a natural pattern to try to identify with figures that look the most like you. A tomboy girl and a transmasc boy can at the same time identify themselves with the same character without impeding on each other’s interpretation, can’t they?
It’s a flat out lie that kids are pushed to be trans.
Most kids with gender dysphoria are lucky if their parents even support them at all. If anything the parents push kids away from it, as is the case with my kid’s friend. In the worst cases parents even reject the kid altogether. They think they’re doing the best thing for their kid but in fact it is exactly the opposite.
Trans kids often face bigotry and persecution and violence. And you think most parents, knowing this, would want that for their kid unless it was obviously what the kid wants??
Also keep in mind that just because you were a tomboy but not trans doesn’t mean gender dysphoria doesn’t exist.
Literal right-wing propaganda. “ThEy PuSh KiDs To Be TrAnS.” You’re a disgusting person.
Edit: This user is also a mod on a lemmy.world community! Wtf. Remove this fucker.
Edit: This user is also a mod on a lemmy.world community! Wtf. Remove this fucker.
It has like 11 monthly members and isn’t related to anything harmful, I don’t think it’s that much of an issue for admins to step in.
True, it would be no loss if they remove that mod
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How would you be “pushed?” Who would do it?
What does a random surgery being “pushed” on you have to do with this conversation? Did it have anything to do with gender? What do you mean by this?
I’m asking all these questions in attempt to discuss this in good faith.
Imagine being this stupid. Well, I suppose you don’t have to.
Consider talking to a trans person and how they found their identity, or learning more about the ways gender identity is expressed or how gender influences society, or maybe just touch grass every once in a while instead of being a shitty person pretending to know something you clearly don’t.
There lies the contradiction. How can there be more studies when everyone is fighting against it? You just said two totally opposing things.
Okay this is where we agree. I would not be against something if it were a matter of holding back basic human curiosity.
I did not. There are many ways the application of hormones can be studied, including to populations who take them for other medical reasons and animal models.
So you’re just making stuff up to get angry about. Big studies show de-transition rates are drastically below rates of regret for most common surgeries, including medically-necessary knee surgery, and cosmetic breast augmentation (which teenage cis girls get, and regret, all the time).
Many de-transtioners are just bullied out of medical care by people like yourself, only to re-transition later. The most common reasons cited for detransition were pressure from a parent (36%), transitioning was too hard (33%), too much harassment or discrimination (31%), and trouble getting a job (29%).
Supporting trans kids is mostly just about clothes/name/pronouns, and the only thing they’re offered is puberty blockers, which were used safely in cisgender children with precocious puberty for decades before people like you started distorting the facts.
You’re just another bigot spreading medical misinformation in a bad-faith attempt to block medical care for a stigmatized minority group, and you should feel bad about it. Shame.
How do you propose doing research other than through informed consent from willing volunteers? Let alone that this whole chain of events even stemmed from a research paper! How are they supposed to do the research you said they need to do, when they’re actively punished for doing it?
If we don’t know then isn’t it a coin toss if the adverse effects of the trans healthcare are worse than the adverse effects of not receiving it? Unfortunately we don’t always have 100% knowledge of how things are going to turn out when it comes to health issues and we have to make the best of what we do know. Which should be left to healthcare professionals and their patients to work out together what is best. Not fucking politicians.
I guess you can’t read
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There is actually a fair amount of trans regret that exists where people who transitioned as adults due to a number of factors have to get over the jealousy and regret that comes from comparing their transitions to the ones that other people experienced with transition during puberty. It’s a thing for sure amongst trans femmes particularly because not passing comes with so many downsides and dangers.
It’s useful to remember that a LOT of care is made to ensure that the choice is made with everybody as informed as they possibly can be which is why puberty blockers are used to buy more time before making a decision what puberty is going to look like. The main team for a trans youth involves a specialist therapist, a social worker, a pediatrician and an endocrinologist but nothing happens if the parent or guardian doesn’t sign off. There is a lot to know which is why if you ever meet someone who transitioned early they know their shit.
Those who do come to regret their transition (which is actually a lot lower than almost any surgery due to the care taken beforehand) are also usually not super bitter. Like they acknowledge that their situation sucks do not get me wrong… But most of them know a lot of other trans people because they reach out to find people in their situation. They also see how those people’s lives have been radically changed for the better by the going through the process. The reason a lot of them don’t speak out is because they would be imperiling something that they know is lifesaving for people they know and they have first hand knowledge about the care that was taken on their behalf.
(Or they were able to somehow get semilegal diy hormones while still a minor)
As for detransitioners, I don’t see that as a good reason for not speaking out (not telling them what to do ofc it’s their decision). But staying quiet opens up more space for people who do claim it ruined their lives. So they speak unopposed and get fox news TV spots and book deals and promote more gatekeeping to protect the children. While afaik in reality most people who regret/detransition do it because of transphobia from their relatives or their workplace or smth
Well that’s just it. If you are miserable because the system doesn’t help you then you go outside the system.
Detransitioners (not ones who temporarily suspend their horomones or goals for medical or life goal reasons like having a kid) are really rare comparatively so even if you know one you’re kind of an outlier, finding a second to compare their experiences against is something you probably have to seek out.
One thing that you get really used to as a trans person is people ignoring what you say and twisting whatever was said to match your point. If you detransition because the social cost was too high chances are also good you don’t want to put yourself in the crosshairs and risk Conservatives quoting everything you say out of context or just be dismissed as “just one crazy’s opinion”.
There’s also an unfair situation inside the community where since people have had the very existence of detransitioners used to do them personal harm by conservatives a lot of people are primed to see detransitioners as a threat. Not all trans folks are saints and fear doesn’t bring out the best in people I’m afraid.
Those who decide to do the whole tv spot book deal thing are those who basically don’t care who they hurt for personal gain. That lack of empathy is in itself a narrowing factor. There isn’t so much a market on the left to be elevated like that because you have way more trans voices making stuff with a range of opinions. People on the left don’t need to be swayed by detransitioners when they already understand trans discrimination and trans joy.
It’s easier to be elevated to the top when you are a basically a super rare prop for someone’s re-election campaign. A lot of the liberal situation isn’t throwing their support unanimously behind trans rights… A lot of them are kind of hoping you forget about trans people because they think that will lose them support so they fronting other issues leaving trans people do their own advocacy.
There’s also an unfair situation inside the community where since people have had the very existence of detransitioners used to do them personal harm by conservatives a lot of people are primed to see detransitioners as a threat. Not all trans folks are saints and fear doesn’t bring out the best in people I’m afraid.
well wouldn’t more visibility for non-regretful detransitioners help with that as well? like a counterexample you can point to when conservatives say it’s a scary irreversible decision that you shouldn’t make unless you’re 146% sure
I wouldn’t imagine that a lot of detransitioners have the energy to advocate. Social transition generally has a hot mess stage where people aren’t really very confident in their transition and you are just clinging to the bricks with splintering fingers trying to get through the hard part of telling everyone what you need. Going through that and then reversing course and doing it a second time probably holds enough social anxiety for several lifetimes on it’s own.
The route of least resistance is to just quietly try and go forward with nobody knowing your history. I would not fault anyone for wanting that.
It’s Also reaaaaaaaaallly rare. Like 2020 in the US there were something around 12,800 gender affirming surgeries done in the US. If the detransition rate is about 1% that is only about 128 people. Of detransitioners studies tend to put those who just found it wasn’t for them (not counting those who found anti-trans sentiments and pressures unbearable and wanted to flee back into the closet where they felt safe) at around 0.04 percent… That’s about… maybe ONE person for everyone who surgically transitioned in the US that year? I dunno how you really count 0.5 of a person so maybe it’s a coin toss?
It’s really scary being that alone as a voice. You are really vulnerable.
There are plenty of studies. The “no studies” thing is a bad faith argument from deliberately misunderstanding the way medical studies work. The theoretical ideal of a double blind study has serious ethical problems when it involves giving a placebo to someone who would be seriously harmed by being denied care, so not all studies are done that way.
Bet you say the same shit about vaccines.
Just report that transphobe. They don’t belong here on Lemmy
Nope, I am provax! Got my flu and COVID shots a few weeks ago.
Ideally you will have received a series of vaccines throughout your lifetime. Anti-science people aren’t truly anti-vax: they’re anti-THIS-vax, like their 18th vaccination is somehow the poison.
Yes, I have, and I continue to urge people to wear masks, get vaccinated, I get my dogs vaccinated; I urge people to vote, I believe systemic racism exists, etc. Despite the narrative that people try to push that all those opposed to medically transitioning children are right-wing conservatives, I am not. I am also a trained scientist with a PhD from a public Ivy university. I do not think that the current zeitgeist surrounding this issue has been resolved through rigorous science and the best attempts to do no harm: to everyone.
I do not think that the current zeitgeist surrounding this issue has been resolved through rigorous science and the best attempts to do no harm: to everyone.
The problem is that in order to prevent the incredibly rare occurrence of a cisgender person mistakenly undergoing transition, you are advocating for policies that would force a far greater number of transgender people to undergo that same horror.
Removed by mod
sigh I don’t know why I bother speaking with TERFs.
There is harm being done to the entire class of women for the loss of the concept of sex as the source of female oppression. Sex matters and these distinctions are being removed in language.
Firstly, that has absolutely nothing to do with what I wrote or the chain of comments thus far. It’s just a completely non-sequitur accusation.
But secondly, this isn’t happening.
An intersectional understanding of oppression and privilege does not erase the oppression cisgender women face.
And the distinctions in language are absolutely not being removed. The words “transgender” and “cisgender” exist precisely to make discussing these issues in a clear and respectful manner possible. That’s exactly what those words are for.
I agree with you.
Thank you. Today I decided I didn’t just want to silence my opinion and contribute to an echo chamber. (Tomorrow I will probably go back to upvoting cat memes.)
