For some reason I’ve just never liked Spider-Man. He comes off as a whiney, ignorant child that never seems to grow up or mature despite everything he goes through. I love a good coming of age story, but he just never seems to become an adult.
Tony Stark - oligarchic propagandist for normalizing the myth of exceptionalism
I like him because he would loudly agree with you, then let you pick one of his sports cars for having the balls to call him out.
The thing about his movie is that he was like, almost okay. Iron Man I was about him learning that selling weapons = bad. He could have continued his moral development.
Instead, we got him fighting Captain America over a very stupid implementation of ‘oversight’ (coming from the guy who refuses to let gov. oversee his iron man development), being creepy to some random boy he just met (actually twice - first Peter and then some kid I don’t remember; in a better set of movies I don’t think Peter would be very thrilled to realize Iron Man was advocating for Peter to get outed in a national registry), and having a snit fit about how he doesn’t want to help Unsnap people who died because he personally is OK with his future with his daughter who may or may not be a robot he built to mime having humanity.What makes him really insufferable for me is his fans who think Captain America is EVIL for daring to snub poor Tony, and that Tony should go date Loki (no I’m not kidding; while I am happy with Loki being queer, I really can’t see the Marvel Universe Tony being a good date for, well, anyone ever, nor Loki being a good date until he works out his genocidal tendency issues at which point he threatens to become alas a much less interesting character).
his daughter who may or may not be a robot he built to mime having humanity
First time I’ve ever heard of this. It it alluded to in the film? My initial reaction is that it couldn’t be true, simply because Pepper wouldn’t be willing to play along.
They made that up to be edgy
Eh, people only fawn over him because RDJ is just perfect in the role, and in a way marked his comeback from some really public struggles.
Chris Evans is great (and a huuunk!) but he’s was/is much younger and plays the role of Government-BrandedHeroWhoIsBasicallyJustSoldierWhoAteHisWheaties.
Chris does the job well, but I mean, RDJ kills, and IMHO is a massive reason marvel got to continue making movies.
I found that Tony’s slide to fascism following his PTSD and thinking he knew better than everyone else was a good character development in a show where he’s not the hero. What we’re missing is a 4th solo movie where he faces his fuck-ups and his selfishness, but no, he went out like a hero through sacrifice after causing it and blaming the rift on Cap (when returning from Titan).
I also found that early Steve really needed to get a better angry face, but that evolved well between Infinity War and Endgame.
Also Batman.
Stark was literally written to be a character that people should by all rights despise but was nonetheless a hero. That was entirely the point of him.
Superman. He just does everything and wins. Unless you show him a green rock.
It’s stupid. I don’t understand how it ever interested anyone.
First, the appeal of Superman is his heart more than his strength. There’s one comic where he fights a giant robot and stops a runaway train, but the scene everyone remembers is when he talked someone down from the edge of a building.
Second, Superman may be invincible, but Lois Lane isn’t. It’s easy to defeat a villain, but much harder to defeat them while also keeping Lois safe. And she actively invites danger, so it’s always tricky keeping her safe.
Third, not every problem can be punched. Luthor’s greatest weapon against Superman isn’t kryptonite; it’s Public Relations. You can punch a monster, but that won’t help you stop a smear campaign.
He’s OK if you stick to classic Superman. He wasn’t a god, back then. Couldn’t turn back time, out-speed The Flash, or fly into the sun and pupate for a hundred years into some ultimate being.
He became increasingly absurd over the years.
I’m a big fan of Supes myself, but it depends on who’s writing him and what the goal is.
He is at his best when it’s a problem he can’t punch away, it’s about courage, and honor of defending others. Superman without powers is still the same stand up powerful character, that is crux of what makes him interesting.
Yeah, I don’t think that it’s a fantastic recipe for a character. The powers restrict the plots.
I think that less-potent powers tend to make for better story.
A lot of fictional series in various formats – not just comic books – make characters or events more-important or more-powerful over the course of the series, to top each previous episode, and I think that the plots tend to become increasingly constrained late in a lot of series.
I love the version of Superman where he growing up and is friends with Luthor and he’s like ‘I cannot tell him my secret because my dad would disapprove’ and it’s got accidental closeted queer vibes.
And there’s this comic book (not in the same continuity) where Luthor is this mad genius who escapes from prison easily and Clark interviews him and he’s like “I like you Clark, you’re so humble and down to Earth, but I hate Superman who is the opposite of that.”
and then Lois likes Superman more than Clark, at least to start with, in some versions I think.
And then with Brainiac there’s the possible storyline of ‘this computer has a lot of information stored on my lost culture but he is also an existential risk to all sapients everywhere in the galaxy ahhhhggg’.
And how will Clark deal with an environment where everyone is hostile to immigrants when he is one himself and also dedicated to upholding the law?
And the first comic where he interacts with Batman is actually fairly good: Batman threatens to bomb people if Superman unmasks him and Superman is like ‘oh shit, he is not lying, I can hear his heartbeat’, but Batman was actually threatening to explode himself. And the cartoon where Batman is fighting Brainiac and his costume gets ripped to reveal he was Superman all along was hilarious: “I did not predict this possibility.” The Justice League series in general (part of the same continuity) was pretty good actually.I like the potential stories there. There’s so many emotional possibilities. Stories where he just punches stuff are indeed boring. He is, frankly, under-utilized as a character imo because many writers don’t understand that, or think the solution is to make a version of him that is evil which still involves him punching stuff, or because they’re scared to actually touch on political issues like immigration or queerness. (can you imagine how many people would explode if Luthor was an ex-boyfriend for both him and Lois and they bonded over how shitty Luthor was as a date lol.)
it’s his ideals make him interesting, his nemesis litterally is an evil billonaire
It’s stupid because you don’t understand it? Aeems like you are the dumb one then.
Jane Foster when she was the wielder of Mjolnir. Not for anything about her personally, but the fact that Thor was treated as a codename. It’s the dude’s actual name, it’d be like if Sam Wilson went around introducing himself as Steve Rogers when he took the Captain America mantle. It’s happened a few other times like with Eric Masterson, but at least he had the excuse that for most of the time he used the name he and the actual Thor were sharing a body.
I think it’s both, his name and his power. In Thor 1 when Odin sends Mjolnir to earth he whispers to it something like “May he who’s been worthy possess the power of Thor”.
Yeah, I don’t mind it. Thor is a name and a title/power. God (presumably) is a name, and Thor has the power of a god.
Prince is a title. It’s also a name. And, to some musicians, Prince is a god.
It’d be rare to win an argument by invoking Prince, but there you go.
The thing is that, as you said, it’s happened several times before. Beta Ray Bill, Red Norvell, Eric Masterson… it’s been established for a long time that in the Marvel universe the title of Thor, God of Thunder, may be held by people who aren’t Thor Odinson (and that he might occasionally lose it, though so far only temporarily, at least in the main continuity).
Excuse me, but that’s always been the case. The first ever appearance of Thor is in Journey into Mistery #83, that’s before he had his own comic, in that comic a guy called Don Blake finds a cane, and when he grabs it this happens https://static1.cbrimages.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/journey-into-mystery-83-thor-debut-1.jpg
So Thor has always been the title of the person in possession of the Hammer, he converts himself into Thor by grabbing the hammer, the movies then changed that because in the Marvel Ultimate universe it’s different, but Jane Foster is from the original comics, where holding the hammer made you Thor, and she did exactly that in the 70s, just a couple of decades after Don Blake.
Batman, tries to solve the cities problems by getting himself a load of expensive toys.
Rich man who could do more good by not hoarding wealth plays dress up instead.
Ah yes, the good old take from people who never read a comic book
Ah yes, the Batman apologist
While arguably Batman could use his wealth better (especially in versions where he’s richer than Luthor, because you don’t get to be richest guy without being a major asshole who does things like force workers to pee in bottles), the other guy/gal also has a point. The comic book universe isn’t our universe, it has aliens invading and Spwecial People who have to be fought by other special people. Batman is basically super-powered the way he can run a marathon, run a chemical analysis and synthesize a new cure for something overnight, and jump 10 feet, they just pretend otherwise.
You might enjoy Harley Quinn where Batman gets arrested for tax fraud.
He also does put money into trying to fix the city. Gotham is canonically cursed like five times over. No matter how much cash you mainline into the city it’s not going to get better.
He spends a lot on “normal” help for the city, but people don’t know this because they don’t read the comics.
The Flash. No list of reasons. Just never appealed to me at all.
Specifically Ezra Miller. God damn, fuck that guy.
Deadpool. He’s not funny, he’s just obnoxious.
That’s kind of the point of Deadpool, though.
He has really departed from the way he was written in the beginning. Becoming popular forced the character to be written shallow.
Fuuuuuuck…
I hated how he became the symbol now of people who’re desperately quirky. You couldn’t throw a damn rock without it hitting some average person who closely associates with Deadpool because “he’s like me! I say and do random shit for the lulz and so does he and that’s all foonay!”.
And yes he is fucking obnoxious to the nth degree, he isn’t creatively written or crafty with his wits. People just think “oh Deadpool is totally the guy who’d ride a unicorn into battle…BECAUSE IT’S DEADPOOL! HAW HAW HAW!!”. Like I don’t think I want Deadpool to be overly serious or edgy, I just want him to be written not in the way he is now. I just feel there could be more there because he’s not a character anymore - he’s noise. Loud and obnoxious noise.
Cyclops. What a toolbox.
And in the X-Men ‘97 reboot, WOW! have they ramped up the toolbox factor.
I have to assume you’ve only seen the Spider-Man movies of recent years and not the comics, the original live action show, or the 90’s animated series.
All of those go well into Peter Parker’s adult years and he’s a much more likeable character. I don’t particularly like what they have done to him in the modern stuff (outside of Spiderverse since Miles is a totally different person anyway). It doesn’t help that it’s been rebooted 3 times so all they’ve shown is his origin story a bunch of times. I can’t stand modern Spidey, either. And it’s extra infuriating because Spider-Man is my favorite.
Don’t hate spiderman. Hate the writers roughly since 2000 that only let him have a break from misery when he’s in an alternate universe where he never became spider man.
Having been introduced to Spider-Man through comic books, I always disliked him. And the comics came out well prior to the 2000s. I was just found him obnoxious.
Robin from the batman franchise, his character seems so extra and forced.
The original, too? He was the epitome of the necessary sidekick, and have Batman an external voice, other than just growing at criminals.
I love the classic TV Dynamic Duo.
I don’t like robin but was collecting comics when he took on the nightwing persona and that sorta coincided with teen titans being pretty awesome and suddenly I liked the character. It made me actually like more of the robin characters including dick before the change.
I went through a goth phase, too; I liked the Nolan reboot, and Nightwing was sufficiently angsty; now I’m just tired of it. I think it peaked in Game of Thrones - you can’t get much more depressingly negative than that - but I hope it swings back around to the golden age of optimism. You see signs, in movements like Solarpunk, but we’ve got a long way to go.
The Adam West version is all good, I forgot about that one.
The live-action TV series was kind of like some of the early comic books I’ve seen – the characters tooling around openly during the day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjIEBCVFaGM
I think I prefer the darker approach, where stuff happens at night.
They’re almost different characters, aren’t they? I’m fond of the original shows, but that’s nostalgia.
A superhero who can’t stand? The Christopher Reeves Superman.
I’ll see myself out.
GASP!
But how‽
paralyzed = cannot stand
He was no longer playing Superman at that point
Did you ever watch the Spiderverse movies? I feel like you’d appreciate Peter B Parker a lot.
Personally I don’t really hate any superheroes. I never fell in love with Wolverine like most people did though. My first experiences with X Men were the first two live action movies, however.
I’m kind of annoyed by most superheroes as characters because of the costume thing.
The spandex thing that’s a pretty-common convention was because the Comic Code Authority disallowed nudity. Solution? Skintight outfits.
Now, I’ve got no problem with nudity, or salaciousness, or outright adult comics for that matter.
But we’ve got all that historical baggage of just about everyone running around in skintight outfits. So a lot of the genre winds up with having to come up with elaborate explanations as to why they’re wearing the things.
The CCA is long dead. You can have nudity or salaciousness in comic books if you want. But the convention is still with us because of designs that date to that era, and it’s just senseless. I feel like it kinda restricts the genre and doesn’t help the immersion.
There are comic characters who don’t do the spandex thing. John Constantine or Dick Tracy wear trenchcoats. Dream in Sandman doesn’t have fixed garb, but doesn’t do spandex.
The Parahumans series – Worm and Ward web serials, not comic books but certainly superheroes – are what I’d call some examples of modern superheroes that don’t have a design dating from an era where there were CCA constraints. Granted, they aren’t graphic novels or comic books, so there are different incentives, but even so.
Are you claiming that Batman wears spandex because originally he was supposed to be naked but the CCA wouldn’t allow that?
She-Hulk, read a few of the comics, saw another version, I don’t get the appeal. So she’s a lawyer, so is Daredevil, it’s a job that doesn’t lend itself well to perilous adventures. Filing a brief…at the edge of madness! She forgot that the county clerk’s office is closed on Memorial Day (US observed)!!! Dun dun duuuunnn
I kinda hate all spin-off superheroes. Supergirl, Superdog, Batgirl; although it’s mostly _Girl versions of _Man. You never see WonderMan. WhitePanther wouldn’t get much love. It just feels like wringing the ol’ franchise of every last drop of blood.
Sometimes it bites me. SpiderVerse is supposed to be good, but it breaks my spin-off Rule.
You never see WonderMan.
googles
Apparently not a “spin-off”, though it looks like there was some friction over the relationship to Wonder Woman.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonder_Man
Marvel Comics’ then-publisher Stan Lee said in 1978, “You know, years ago we brought out Wonder Man, and [DC Comics] sued us because they had Wonder Woman, and… I said okay, I’ll discontinue Wonder Man. And all of a sudden they’ve got Power Girl [after Marvel had introduced Power Man]. Oh, boy. How unfair.”[7]
Nice sleuthing!
I didn’t mean so much similar names, as identical characters differing only by gender/race.
White Panther
This idea is like nitroglycerine
Yeah, spin offs aren’t my thing, except for Frasier.
So she’s a lawyer, so is Daredevil, it’s a job that doesn’t lend itself well to perilous adventures.
Perry Mason’s kind of a Sherlock Holmes-type character. Not a superhero, but a lawyer character who does get into dangerous situations.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perry_Mason
Perry Mason is a fictional character, an American criminal defense lawyer who is the main character in works of detective fiction written by Erle Stanley Gardner. Perry Mason features in 82 novels and 4 short stories, all of which involve a client being charged with murder, usually involving a preliminary hearing or jury trial. Typically, Mason establishes his client’s innocence by finding the real murderer. The character was inspired by famed Los Angeles criminal defense attorney Earl Rogers.
Ok, put Mason in yellow spandex and we’ll see.
Pretty much all of them.
