WHAT
- Former U.S. President Donald J. Trump was shot at a rally in PA.
TRUMPS STATEMENT
“I want to thank The United States Secret Service, and all of Law Enforcement, for their rapid response on the shooting that just took place in Butler, Pennsylvania. Most importantly, I want to extend my condolences to the family of the person at the Rally who was killed, and also to the family of another person that was badly injured. It is incredible that such an act can take place in our Country. Nothing is known at this time about the shooter, who is now dead. I was shot with a bullet that pierced the upper part of my right ear. I knew immediately that something was wrong in that I heard a whizzing sound, shots, and immediately felt the bullet ripping through the skin. Much bleeding took place, so I realized then what was happening. GOD BLESS AMERICA!”
WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW SO FAR
- gunman is dead
- Trump “is fine”
- one attendee is dead
- another attendee is in critical condition
News Sources
- CNN - Trump rushed off stage after shooting at Pennsylvania rally
- AP News - Live updates: Shooting at Trump rally is being investigated as assassination attempt, AP sources say
- The Hill - George W. Bush condemns ‘cowardly attack’ at Trump rally
- Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) on Xitter - video interview with witness who tried to warn police before shooting happened
- Sky News - Gunshots reportedly fired at Donald Trump rally - as former president rushed off stage (Article confirms one rally attendee dead)
- Reuters - Biden says he is grateful to hear Trump is safe, has been briefed on shooting
- OAlexanderDK on Xitter - The shooter was on a roof approximately 125m or 400ft from where Trump was standing.
- JakeMRosen on Xitter - An emergency room doctor I spoke with tried to save someone’s life in the crowd
Do not advocate or celebrate violence, please. Comments advocating violence will be deleted and bans will be issued.
Also, please avoid promoting conspiracies. Discussing current events is fine but suggesting things like “it’s a false flag” without evidence is spreading a conspiracy.
Why not? Isnt that what americans claim the second amendment is for?Prevent fascism?
Communism, not Fascism, or to protect workers’ rights if you go back far enough. We only got involved in fighting fascism because we were drawn into the war, otherwise it’s never been that big of an issue to Americans and many schools aren’t even allowed to teach about it anymore because “kids shouldn’t have to feel bad about something like that” or whatever excuses the far right is currently using to prevent their schools from teaching about Anne Frank, concentration camps, slavery, anything else they want to implement themselves.
I know this is off-topic, but can we please go back to saying “conspiracy theory”? Conspiracy and conspiracy theories are not the same. There are actual conspiracies (a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful) , and there are theories of conspiracies. They should not be confused.
Lemmy users when they can’t advocate violence:
young_guy_straining.jpg
Advocating for violence to prevent a fascist from abolishing the democracy is the only acceptable violence. Sometimes a democracy has to be protected violently if it is too weak to protect itself. Trump allies always say its why they have the second amendment. Now that it is used against them they cry about it.
Everybody thinks their form of violence is the only acceptable violence.
The paradox of tolerance is only a paradox if you don’t believe in the social contract.
Beliefs that violate the social contract deserve no protection under it.
I know you have to say this, but holy shit do I disagree.
This person advocated significant violence and contributed to the deaths and loss of human rights of thousands. A good whack of the world would turn up hungover to work tomorrow after celebrating only a few inches over.
No better fuel for an extremist ideology then having a martyr. Trump isn’t the problem, it’s the millions who listen to him.
Trump is absolutely the problem when he’s the mouthpiece of American fascism. Why are we pretending his death would be bad? We’re a couple years from having concentration camps in the US if he wins and everyone’s wringing their hands over this attempt at saving millions of lives by taking one.
Yea it might cause a civil war, that looks unavoidable at this point anyway. I’d rather civil war than concentration camps
They’re still waving the Confederate flag. What makes you think bullets will kill this ideology in round 2?
It would silence one of the most successful voices and hamper the movement, not kill the ideology itself.
And how do you kill the ideology? By having the most successful voice of it ultimately accomplish nothing and die as a sad old man.
There’s a reason his rhetoric has been: “The election was stolen!” Because that feeling is powerful, that they were right on the cusp of doing something great, if only the enemy hadn’t poisoned it. It’s got the right mix of victimization and hope that really motivates a movement. You’ll get that 10x now that he’s victimized. And you’d get it 20x if he’s martyred.
You can’t kill any ideology.
Nazis are still around.
Confederate apologists are still around.
The only effective end to the tyrrany of their ideology when it had enough momentum wasn’t strong words and voting. MAGA is about three small steps from turning the US into a literal fascist state.
The only thing that holds authoritarian regimes like the MAGA crowd together are narcissists like Trump. They would collapse without someone as good at stoking their anger, and he really is the only one that is personally revered by the MAGA crowd. Sure, other grifters make money and get ciews, but nobody cares when the other grifters like Alex Jones face some justice.
We can educate and shame a population for voicing their support for said fascism. In fact it was working pretty well until Trump made it ok to be a bigot publicly again. That’s what’s the whole MAGA thing is about
A reminder, he incited people Jan 6th which resulted in deaths.
That’s the wild thing.
This is a “Oh no what will Cheeto say to start a riot?”
And his cult still defends the insurrectionists.
That’s not a justification for more violence, two wrongs don’t make a right. He was wrong for doing what he did and this is wrong as well. This is because political violence in it’s entirety is wrong. Jesus, do people not have principles anymore? Seeing all the supposedly moral people turn into Q anon level conspiracy theorists who condone violence is depressing.
The death of Hitler, sadam hussein, Bin laden and all the others who threatened the free world disagree.
Hitler committted suicide. Any insight in how the other executions actually improved the world?
But these are vastly different situations. For the record, all three of these individuals used political violence to achieve political aims, that’s one of the reasons why history doesn’t remember them fondly. The constantly killed people they didn’t like under the justification that it’s for the greater good or self defense. Saddam Hussien did that when he genocided the Kurds in Iraq and the invasion Kuwait, Hitler did that with the Holocaust and the invasion of Europe, and Bin Laden did that with 9/11 and the other terrorist attacks he launched.
Keep in mind, we actually have a justice system in this country that actually works. If we want Trump to face justice it has to go through the justice where he faces trial and is found guilty based on evidence… which has already happened btw for one of his crimes. That’s how justice is handled in a civil democracy. We can’t have randos going on self righteous terrorism crusades killing political candidates they don’t like. If someone tried assassinate Biden, would you being say the same? Probably not, and rightfully so, but the terrorist who tried to kill would be making similar justifications to what you’re trying to make right now. The very idea is wrong.
lmao
While its not perfect you could easily be alot more oppressed. Democracy dies when people stop fighting for it.
The US invaded Iraq under GW Bush on a lie about WMD’s. Killed Saddam and countless Iraqis, including journalists, for nothing.
The US invaded Afghanistan rather than negotiate with its ruling power to hand over Bin Laden, then didn’t get their hands on him for another decade even though the US won the war and took over the country from day 1. 20+ years of bloody occupation later you lost the war and the Taliban is back in power. Another pointess war started with deception.
Don’t get me started on Vietnam.
You guys have some twisted idea of democracy where the ‘Democrats’ don’t even elect their own candidates.
Please stop exporting democracy. The world doesn’t want your perverse version.
Hitler killed himself btw.
To be fair, the US did try to negotiate with Afghanistan to extradite Bin Laden and the Taliban refused.
The US did not really try to negotiate with the Taliban regime. The US just demanded the Taliban hand them over, then refused a quite reasonable condition to show some evidence that Al Qaeda was responsible for the attack.
Conflating a government or regime with an international terrorist organisation is the lie the propaganda told you to accept invading and occupying an impoverished foreign country that had just gone through a famine.
Tell me, should we have turned the other cheek during WWII? Two wrongs don’t make a right after all, right?
We didn’t join WWII because the Nazis were bad, we joined because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and then Hitler declared war on the US.
Exactly, should’ve just turned the other cheek, right?
Really? You don’t realize that the US didn’t join a war that started in 1939 until 1941 when Japan bombed Pearl Harbor … so was only part of the war for less than 4 years?
Wow!
You inferred something about Nazis, and now what you’re saying makes no sense as a response to what I’ve been asking you.
I’ll put it more clearly so you can actually give an answer: When Japan bombed Pearl Harbor, you’re saying we should’ve turned the other cheek?
Ikr!
Two wrongs do not make a right though.
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How many deaths did it result in? Cause there is only one death on Jan 6 that has ever been attributed to Jan 6.
I don’t disagree that he incited the insurrection, but making false claims doesn’t help show that the left is the party of honesty.
Why are you pretending like right-wing violence isn’t the literal leading domestic security threat?
Have you been living under a rock since 2016?
2016? It’s been since at least the 90s.
Well, yeah, I mean, we can go back a hundred years, conservatives will always be pushing violence and division whatever era you look at since they can’t hold power without it, I mostly mean it’s come out fully into the open since 2016. The mask dropped off completely and they’re no longer even pretending to be anything but the Confederacy 2.0.
This shit was never here before because it’s likely CYA mode for Lemmy because feds could come sniffing here if copycat incidents occur.
bro the feds are already sniffing lemmy you think they arent?
They’re sniffing lemmy just like their sniffing literally every other social media platform right now.
Is it not actually called the fed…averse…
fed i verse.
Federal investigation universe. Checkmate.
Oh so that’s why my official Lemmy moderator paycheck comes from the FBI?
(This is a joke, we are not paid)
the M stands for Money :)
Or all the domestic violence
How do you spread a conspiracy? I think you mean speculation.
My friend, you know exactly what they mean. Don’t push a “well maybe somebody set it up because …” theory unless you have facts to back it up.
I would like facts that back up you claim to know what your “friend” was thinking
Obviously someone set this up, bullets don’t just appear out of nowhere. It may have just been the gunman who acted entirely alone. We have no evidence that anyone worked with the gunman but what’s that saying about the absence of evidence?
You can’t use the English language in an openly misleading fashion and expect that people are going to go along with it, not in a situation like this. The expression “someone set this up” clearly implies the existence of a second person.
What made you think that another person is involved? Nothing. If we were to look at historical evidence, we would find that a lot of these situations are done by so-called lone wolf attackers. So if we’re going to blindly speculate, we should at least be consistent with historical evidence, and we should certainly speak unambiguously.
The issue is the volume of comments about this being faked entirely or a false flag.
I take issue with inaccurate language. This is how trains crash. A conspiracy is where 2 or more people plan something in secret. A conspiracy theory is where an outsider speculates about the nature of such plans. Also, without wanting to speculate myself, logically it was either a lone actor or a group conspiring, since it clearly wasn’t publicised in advance. I personally doubt it was some grand conspiracy.
“no actual discussion allowed” got it
If the only way you can discuss an assassination is by advocating for additional violence and pushing lies, then I guess not?
How did you determine what was true in this situation and what was false? I am curious about your methodology.
True: confirmed information. False: unconfirmed information of a speculative nature. Do you see a specific issue you disagree with or are you just trying to argue?
You are just moving the problem around via definitions not actually saying what method you used to know exactly what happened yesterday.
All I asked is how you arrived at the truth. Did you see evidence that the general public didn’t? Because what I am seeing is you all are so absolutely certain you have literally compared it to Covid misinformation. Amazing, a 30 hour news event is so well understood you can compare our knowledge of it to the single most studied virus in human history months after a new variant had appeared.
It is not unreasonable how you were able to obtain information the rest of us apparently do not have and how you were able to eliminate all other alternatives so quickly.
You are limiting discussion to centrist viewpoints, centrism caters towards permissive attitudes towards fascism. You know this.
“hey guys don’t politicize an attempted political assassination”
Not really what I said at all. “Hey guys, don’t make stuff up, please rely on credible sources, and don’t advocate for violence”.
Or, in other words: follow the rules we’ve always had in place
Advocating for, or not advocating for, violence is a political stance. Many people defend Israel’s ongoing genocide and are not blocked from doing so. That doesn’t feel like the rules being consistently enforced. The people speculating on whether or not this is staged have access to the same information as everyone else, and in the spirit of true discourse, if it was seen to be false you could figure that out by discussion rather than censorship.
If you have evidence that it was staged, feel free to share it. If you don’t, then we ask that you not speculate. It’s no different than any other claim for which we’d require a basic amount of credible substantiation.
Should I start reporting every comment that doesn’t have sources? 😂😂
If someone has made a claim that runs counter to commonly acknowledged information, please report it. If you need a few examples…
You would need a source to say:
You would NOT need a source to say:
I don’t personally think it was staged, but be honest … it’s not like you delete every single comment that doesn’t have sources …
We remove comments that make objectively false claims, especially when they involve life or death situations. Covid misinformation is a good example.
Lol stfu, nobody cares about your fricked censorship
Didn’t know this was the “othe r/ place” now…but… Okay.
This community can be whatever it wants to be. If you want to advocate for violence you are free to do that elsewhere in the fediverse. Just not here.