- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.smeargle.fans
- hackernews@derp.foo
- cross-posted to:
- hackernews@lemmy.smeargle.fans
- hackernews@derp.foo
Apple has a memory problem and we’re all paying for it::Apple still sells expensive “Pro” computers with just 8GB of RAM and charges a fortune for more.
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Apple fan here, and I love what they’ve done with hardware the last few years. That said…. I have to agree. Base RAM config is silly low, and higher RAM and SSD configs are stupid expensive. It’s a money maker for sure, I wish it wasn’t so obviously a cash grab. I’d be ok with a bit more padding in the base hardware price if the ram wasn’t so expensive to upgrade.
In the old days this was a moot point because you buy base config and immediately swap for after market big sticks- I did that for decades, but these days with soldered RAM and storage…. Eh, it’s a bit of a kick in the balls.
I am stoked for my new M3 next week though, good thing work pays for it!
Apple fan here
asking for contempt? ;-)
Jealousy is more like it. MacOS is amazing.
MacOS is the worst part about Apple. Their hardware is amazing, but the software (third and first party) sucks.
How so? It’s a polished Unix desktop that runs most open-source and a bunch of proprietary apps, including Final Cut and Logic. It’s natively POSIX and has a proper shell.
It’s alright. Personal preference has me sticking with Linux, and I’ll never touch Windows with a ten foot pole if I can avoid it, but MacOS is certainly commendable.
Before I went Linux, I daily drove hackintoshes for a decade or so - back when the hardware was bad and the software was first class. Now it’s the other way around!
If Asahi ever get their kernel perfect, I’m definitely buying a modern MacBook Pro. No doubt about it.
I was watching a Twitch stream from a programmer and he said the same thing, about Apple switching from bad hardware/good software to good hardware/bad software. I do think modern macOS is so much better than modern Windows, but it’s far from where it was. Though that might just be me being nostalgic; 10.5-10.9 (Leopard to Mavericks) was my personal “golden age”.
I would argue modern MacOS is not “bad software” per se, it’s just nothing to write home about. Back in the heyday you describe, it was innovative and quite spectacular compared to the competition. Nowadays it’s rivals are better featured in many respects, but it still does everything it needs to.
I haven’t had any problems 🤷♂️
Many Linux distros support Mac devices.
For what? Or at what?
If you were asking that genuinely I’d answer. But I’m trolling you all just as much as you think you’re trolling me.
I’ve barely used MacOS, so it’s a genuine question
The closing sentence of the article…
“as Apple customers, we shouldn’t stand for it”
Apple customers…
“Here’s my $200”
You missed a 0
“we’re all paying for it”
Journalism these days is fucking awful
Maybe not this specific thing, but Apple is super influential on the industry as a whole and when other companies see people tolerate Apple’s bullshit, they follow suit.
Yep. I am reminded of 3.5mm audio jack being removed from phones because Tim Cook was ‘brave’.
Well I do think the high cost of expansion RAM in Apple products is tied to school shootings, gerrymandering, and the prison industrial complex.
That is in the context of “Apple customers”.
Just a thought.
If I’m being generous, it’s macworld.com speaking to an audience of Apple users.
But no, I am not paying for it. I’m over here drooling at M1 chips, but then stopping when I see the baggage that comes with it.
[…] we’re all paying for it
How? How am I paying for Apple’s shortcomings?
Well, every competitor to Apple used to have expandable storage on their flagship phones. Removable batteries too that were a breeze to replace if they went bad. They all copied apple, and terrible storage and glued in batteries that are hard to replace is standard now. U have to pay 100 x what a micro SD for the same amount of storage would be, and replacing a battery, while possible to do on your own now requires special knowledge and tools. If you’re building your own PC, it probably doesn’t affect your PC, but laptops have also followed suit. Glued in batteries/ hard drives are the norm, and it’s way harder to modify a shelf model laptop than it was 10 years ago. Apple is the King of enshittification. I’m so tired of companies copying them and all their greedy, customer fucking moves.
Modularity/expand-ability comes at a cost. Both monetary cost and performance cost. We used to have gpus with expandable memory but we dont anymore.
Thats because by having the memory integrated into the board, we can put it much closer to the chip, greatly increasing the bandwidth and lowering the latency. This is exactly what Apple has done with its memory and why it isnt expandable anymore. Apple’s memory is 5x+ faster than ddr5 in terms of bandwidth. Also you fully take advantage of the entirety of the available memory bus, instead of having empty lanes chilling for potential upgrades.
By having an integrated battery, you can have the battery have all kinds of wacky shapes that fill your design better.
Having a microsd slot takes a lot of space and can result into a significant degraded user experience if the user uses a slow microsd. And even a fast microsd is slower than integrated storage.
All these things are possible but they come with some sacrifices. Part of the change is because of enshittification but some changes is because they make sense.
Not sure why this user is getting down voted. They made valid points. I have been using Linux as a personal computer since the I was old enough to type, however, my job uses M1 macs. I can definitely say MacOS in terms of UX is a pain (especially without making some third party updates), but I cannot talk shit about the hardware performance.
I initially grimaced when I received a 16GB RAM M1 computer from IT, however, the battery life along with the compute power has not failed me. I run 3D CAD, write software, and design simulation models and have been honestly amazed compared to my 64GB RAM + Nvidia GPU Linux computer.
Everyone talks about Mac fanboys, but I think the anti-Mac fanboys are just as bad. Seem to automatically hate Apple stuff without even using it. If you take a look at what is going on (outside of Apple) with supercomputing and high speed serial links, you would understand why Apple is doing what it is.
Everyone talks about Mac fanboys, but I think the anti-Mac fanboys are just as bad. Seem to automatically hate Apple stuff without even using it.
Because Apple’s cash grabs like the one in the OP as well as their locked-down iOS and continuous opposition to R2R, ot to mention the absurd prices they charge for the privilege of these handicaps, we don’t need to use them to understand.
I don’t work for Apple, so I don’t really know, but I have worked at many electronics companies. A few points:
- Companies lock down or will open source IP (software/firmware/hardware) to meet a particular business strategy. In the mass product market, litigation is common for patent infringement so careful control is taken on each technology. I’m not sure I believe in opensourcing everything. Companies need to stay competitive. Behind a company is ten of thousands of employees that are being paid a livelihood (not just all developers making $250k+/yr, plenty other people in operations, quality, distribution, marketing etc)
- Apple’s strategy is to build a vertically integrated tech stack internally that is aligned with their vision. This is their brand and the people who like the company vision will buy it. You don’t have to like all their choices, but they have done the math and have figured out the proper moving average between pissing off consumers and providing value to know where they stand. They like doing things the Apple way, ensure the company can continue to make money and innovate
- You don’t have to buy the product. Just because you think the price is absurd doesn’t mean others can’t afford it. Personally, in the work I’m doing, my cheaper MacBook Air is having more value to me than my Linux computer I spent 3x more. The OP is designed for a specific type of user, it’s not meant for everyone. For work, I don’t need my computer to be opensource, I need it to work, so I can get my job done. For personal geekiness, I love the opensource nature of linux and have contributed to many projects, however, a company like Apple is definitely needed to make landmark improvements in technology. There is a reason why you go out to an Italian restaurant and get a $26 pasta dish when you can make it at home for $4.
- In your thought process, hardware is hardware. But there is also a mission that is attached with it. Apple leads in terms of mitigation of environmental impact which I think is pretty cool. It offers buybacks for most (all ?) products. I don’t know how much they actually recycle per part or if things are just getting shipped off to Zambia and being sold as refurbished. If I’m paying a little more to benefit a company that aligns with my values than so be it. They aren’t going to sell a product for a loss (unless strategically). There are too many retirement funds in Apple for it to be losing money
I’m not sure I believe in opensourcing everything.
I don’t either. Not sure where you were going with that.
You don’t have to like all their choices, but they have done the math and have figured out the proper moving average between pissing off consumers and providing value to know where they stand.
Once again, not sure where you’re going with that. I don’t give a shit about Apple’s business plan.
You don’t have to buy the product.
Ah yes, the classic iF yOu DoNt LiKe It DoNt BuY iT! as if other companies don’t learn from Apple’s shitfuckery how much bullshit consumers will tolerate and then apply those same measures themselves until there are no more viable options…
There is a reason why you go out to an Italian restaurant and get a $26 pasta dish when you can make it at home for $4.
Yes but when you go out to a nice Italian restaurant the chef doesn’t piss in your aerioli and then charge you $20 more than their competitor for the privilege.
Apple leads in terms of mitigation of environmental impact which I think is pretty cool
Holy shit, I didn’t think people actually bought into their bullshit marketing but you really gobbled that shit up, didn’t ya?
You can’t pretend you care about the environment while grinding perfectly good working devices into e-waste, and going out of your way to make your devices irreparable, and spending millions of dollars paying off legislators for the right to do so. It’s a fuckin sham.
My friend, my goal is not to make you upset, just giving my thoughts. Your metaphors don’t exactly make sense in this context, and some of your responses are telescopic focusing on one thing when other companies do equal, nothing or worse. If you could name a company that is exceeding your expectations, I’d love to hear it as I would support them as well.
Regardless, I hope that you have a great day.
“We” is referring to Apple customers.
Yea this is a Macworld article.
Damn, even my phone got 8GB memory
My phone (pixel 6 pro) has 12gb and it’s a 2021 model. It’s outrageous a pro laptop only has 8.
My phone is a Galaxy A52 from 2021. Not even a flagship. It costed me around $500 new.
I absolutely love Apple Silicon—the performance to power ratio is wonderful, and the high-speed memory makes things like LLMs work great—but the RAM upcharge is insane, and shipping anything “Pro” with 8GB of RAM should be criminal in 2023.
I really hope that Qualcomm can make some noise with their new laptop/desktop processors. Anything to light a fire under Apple’s ass and make them stop skimping on RAM.
I cannot +1 this hard enough. There was once upon a time, back in the Darwin days, when I had my eyes on a Macbook as my next computer. Apple Silicon almost got me there again. I’m itching for a Snapdragon X Elite Oryon OMGLOLBBQ SBC, but I’m not holding my breath. I bet laptop makers snap up all the chips for 2024, and then I get one in 2025.
Which LLM are you running on your macbook?
Not an LLM, but stable diffusion runs on them… Very slowly due to extreme swap usage.
Microsoft’s exclusivity deal with Qualcomm expires soon, so there should be more options coming around. After all this time, RISC will finally change everything (without getting into the technical details of how it did already).
We are? Pretty sure I ain’t.
*fan bois are paying for it
RAM is boring… THE FINISH IS TITANIUM!!!
THAT’S LITERALLY OUR ENTIRE MARKETING CAMPAIGN!
I can’t believe that Apple would do this. It’s so not like them to cripple great machines with one horrendous bottleneck. Like could you imagine if they released an iMac in 2020 that they sold until the release of the M1 iMac that had a 1TB hard drive in it as a boot device? That’d be insane.
Hah, I just wrote a comment about how they used to ship computers back in the 90’s that had resistors in them to make them slower, so they could sell cheaper “budget” versions of their faster computer models.
This is a prime example of how capitalism “innovates”.
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If Windows didn’t wanna make me punch my monitor at least once a month, that’d be a good deal…
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To each their own, after having had the ‘pleasure’ of maintaining a fleet of Macs I’m personally quite happy with Windows these days. I’m never touching anything running MacOS ever again, that bullshit OS almost made me want to practice my frisbee skills on more than one occasion. Stability issues galore, that stupid single menubar that changes depending on which window has focus, crap like ‘sudo rm somefile’ failing with a ‘not enough disk space remaining to remove file’ error message when the disk is full, and many many other issues that were such a pita to solve. MacOS feels like having to work with one hand tied behind your back and a hammer in the other. Never again.
I mean, some of those are preference things. I like the menu bar on top because it’s easy to home in on it. It’s always up there. For every program. No searching.
I cannot complain about stability, either. I had a hackintosh running macOS on PC hardware, that was more stable than Windows on the same machine…
And I also rarely do things in the terminal besides ssh-ing into my Linux server…
I’d agree though, that Windows is easier to maintain. It’s just a pain in the ass to daily drive, because, at least in my experience, something will always refuse to work for no apparent reason, even though it’s supposed to.
I am having the same feeling towards the Mac I have to use at work. That stupid piece of shit is just a usability nightmare. I’ve no idea why people insist on Apple products being simpler or more efficient to use. It’s just not true.
I guess it depends on individual preferences and experiences
Yes. Unfortunately people who buy Apple don’t care. This is what happens when you prioritise brand and design over functionality. You end up paying more for the brand (worse shit, but hey you can feel good about buying such a great product!).
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As an Apple user: I do care. However, the alternative is using Windows, which makes me wanna punch my monitor at least once a month. And I’m not even using it as a primary OS.
I don’t prioritize design and don’t care about brand at all but I care about a frust free experience and I just don’t have that with windows.
Running a hackintosh was less frustrating than using windows on the very same hardware…
If Linux supported the software and the features I need/want, I would very much just use that
What does Windows do to make you want to punch your monitor?
For example (and that is only one out of many over the years), on my one PC search just refused to work. Windows search isn’t great but not having it is even worse than that and no matter what I did, neither the search in the Start menu nor in the Explorer worked. Couldn’t type in anything. If I opened the on screen keyboard, it did work but not with my physical one. I even reinstalled Windows from scratch and it worked for a few weeks and then stopped again. No one why. Only got fixed once I went back to Win 10.
Another Example is Microsofts over-insistence to force Edge, bing, OneDrive, Office365, etc. on you. It feels like, once a month, when I log in, I get a splash screen to please subscribe to one of those services and also use Bing and also, they put the Edge icon back onto my Desktop.
It’s things like those that just annoy the shit out of me. I want to use my PC, not to constantly fix it. And it’s a myriad of other thing like that. Some small, some bigger.
It’s not that macOS is better in every way, there are a few things Windows undoubtedly does better (like having a keyboard shortcut to open the file explorer) but for my day to day use, macOS has kept out of my way and just done what it’s supposed to. And sadly macOS is a package deal with Macs, which are great, hardware wise but also very expensive. But considering the software advantage, the Apple tax is worth it, at least to some extent
I personally never had much problems with Windows 11, but I fully understand the edge frustration. I used MacOS for many years, but not without tweaking and porting the hell out of it. The problem with Apple for me is their lack of reparability and the absurd prices of their hardware. I now mostly use Linux, although it’s far from perfect and nowhere near as good as some claim, so I’m still forced to stick with Windows.
There are things in Mac that also make me want to punch my monitor. No tree view in Finder, so I have to open two windows to copy stuff? No titles in the launcher so I have to scroll over all the windows to find the one I need? It’s a nightmare for working with documents. I much prefer windows for that.
He’s paying for it. Many of us don’t buy Apple products.
Managed my whole life just fine without ever owning a single apple product.
back in the day my ipods each died within two weeks (original and replacement), I have not given a cent to this company since then
It’s even worse when you consider there’s no dedicated video memory, so this is shared between graphics and the rest of the system.
I recently had to replace my Mac and was not at all happy with the ridiculous 8GB default. Ended up getting my first Windows machine in 10+ years. Same for my sis, she really wanted a Mac but work was only going to shell out $1500. You can get a helluva Windows machine for $1500 (64GB of RAM and 2TB HD). Sure it may not be “Retina” or have an insane color profile, but like great TVs, most people can’t tell unless they’re right next to a superior one.
Having had multiples of windows and linux laptops in the past, I’ve gotta say that one can’t put a price on convenience and UX. I never liked using a laptop, carrying one around, especially working with one, until I ate my pride and tried a MacBook.
This is entirely subjective though. Previously I always compared the specs like that too, but I’ve come to realize there’s plenty more to these products beyond what can be listed in the spec sheet and easily compared like that.
But this is neither here or there, just that your message rang an old bell, and I thought I’d just chime in. I hope you have a great time with the new computers, we humans have different tastes and needs 😌
Can you elaborate further on the benefits? I have a Mac mini M1, a MacBook Pro M2, a more powerful Lenovo laptop, a more powerful Dell XPS, and a more powerful windows desktop (on paper).
I don’t use them a lot, but thus far, I struggle to find any benefit to MacOS. I use them because I have to and, generally, no longer than that. I mean, I might as well use Linux at that point and make my life easier and productivity faster. Mac keyboard shortcuts are an absolute nightmare to me (but maybe I’m just not used to them?)
I must be missing something, because some people swear by them.
Agree with you fully on the shortcut front, and it’s very confusing that ctrl is separate from the command key. The whole keyboard layout is also a nightmare, but this is probably because I’m in Sweden, where the Swedish mac keyboard layout is radically different from the normal Swedish keyboard layout that all other computers use. When I help out someone with programming on a mac, I always end up telling them “please press pipe” or tilde, braces, backslash, or even at-sign, as these are not printed on the keys. They are accessible through the option key, but you’ll have to test all combinations to find which one is where and memorize this.
Not everyone prioritizes productivity and fastness. It’s entirely subjective, and you probably just aren’t one of those that see and feel the benefits of it, and that’s entirely valid too 😌
Personally I am a software engineer with a creative streak, enhanced by adhd, so I guess the combination of those and all of the rest of me just results in me performing better, more focused and more at home with a mac. I doubt there’s a way to quantify that in any objective sense, not for me anyway. Maybe a psychologist could explain.
What I can say, is a lot of my work I do moving around, so having a device I actually can bother to carry with me without disdain is a big plus, so the weight and form factor helps a lot there I think. And the battery, for sure. And the speed at which I can quit and resume work. All of these also mesh well with my adhd, which tends me towards moving a lot and taking a lot of pauses in between work sessions.
And I tend to drop my devices a lot, and so far the Apple products have been the only ones to sustain that 😅
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Fair enough, I’m glad you found something that works for you 😌
“yeah, could you please get me that unusable os, with the impossible shortcuts, I like to do things differently.” What are you talking about. Even if I’m casually using my pc, why wouldn’t I use shortcuts to make better use of it? Especially after paying a huuuuge premium for the device?
The conclusion that I get from you is: I know it’s not as usable, but I like it so much, I’ll say productivity is not the main goal. I really don’t get it. Especially as you are a programmer.
Also, I don’t know how one could get a “at home” vibe with unusable shortcuts and an ecosystem that fucks its users on the regular …
Might come off as harsh or mean, but that’s not my intention, I really just don’t get it ^^
Well, the shortcuts are customizable, and as a prior emacs enthusiast, I’ve never encountered unusable or impossible shortcuts.
But then again, this is subjective, so we can’t really argue about that my dude.
To me, all of it is convenient. Shortcuts included. The conclusion you drew is just a projection from your point of view, and as such, it’s understandable, but none of that is anything akin to what I am saying…
Yeah, I guess you’re right.
Battery life is crazy good. Nothing windows based can even get close right now.
The trackpad is a step above anything else on the market.
I rarely use keyboard shortcuts. There’s never been a need for them imo. I don’t like using shortcuts on my windows machines either, preferring the mouse. The few shortcuts I do use are from the trackpad, which are a few fairly intuitive gestures.
The fact that mainstream software runs on them is a massive draw as well. Final Cut, Photoshop, Lightroom, etc all won’t run on any Linux distro.
If you don’t use any laptop often, it’s probably not going to be worth it. But if you need a high performance laptop they’re pretty much the best option outside of price
Apple pc are just way more efficient and have way longer battery live because they use arm. Of course, you don’t need a mac to use arm, but macOS is supported by many apps while linux and windows for arm are not that far in software support. Additionally, the hardware of apple PCs is always good and having same quality shell/hardware on non apple devices is nearly as expensive as an Apple pc. I prefer linux and FOSS but many people think they need proprietary software and FOSS is just not convenient enough (where they are wrong, most FOSS is very convenient)
I could get a beefy windows machine for the price of my M2 air. I’m a software dev and I’ve recently switched from Windows 10 box and Linux laptop.
If you look at the other top stories on Technology, you see:
- MS mentions pushing AI search to Windows 10
- MS asks you for reasons to close OneDrive
For last month, MS was pastering me to create a web account to login to my old win10 machine.
And essentially, MS got me soo tired with all this bullshit, that I’ve switched to Apple. And the only thing that I have to be aware of, is that it often makes sense to wait before upgrading system version.
