This conversation is held daily over in the echo chamber known as !conservative@lemm.ee
Careful, winning an argument with a mod earns a free lifetime ban.
Careful, winning an argument with a mod earns a free lifetime ban.
So just like the old subreddit then? Weird how that piece of culture sticks with them.
The difference is that on Reddit I got suspended from the entire site for “report abuse” because I (correctly) reported misinformation in r/conservative and it hurt the snowflake mods’ fee-fees.
In other words, Lemmy is structurally superior because there are no fascist admins with the power to ban you from the entire network.
Lmao, I reported genocidal comments in r/worldnews and was site banned for the same reason.
I had 4 reports total, 2 were acted on and the other 2 were pretty blatant calls to violence.
It’s actually what made me quit Reddit.
Meanwhile I got no questions asked appeal denied lifetime banned from Reddit for saying “I should totally be allowed to punch Nazis”.
I always mentally append “Nazi sympathizers” to reddit now…
For my “worldnews” ban, I called someone out for ONLY posting pro-israel content, from biased Israeli media sources, and how every comment under all their posts that disagreed were downvoted into oblivion 😅
The upvote/downvotes for my comment were shifting by dozens of votes in both directions for DAYS. It was hilarious
It’s not much different here. I get comments removed for calling out right wing propaganda trolls pretending to be far left tankies.
Conversations like this make the whole Internet feel like a shithole now.
It’s funny that you call us tankies when it’s Democrats and Republicans who gladly support a trillion and a half dollars a year being shipped off to war.
Look up what “tankie” means. And maybe you’ll understand why people call you that.
And for the record, know that you’ve essentially outed yourself for claiming the title. Good job there bud.
Idk if it is just me but lemmy has appeared to have a massive right wing shift, at least a huge influx of liberals unable to have a conversation without blindly slinging accusations. A lot of people on lemmy now unable to comprehend unhappiness with the system, singing praises to the status quo and woefully inadequate reforms at best. Welcome to election season I guess.
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Being banned from a conservative zone is like a mark of quality humanship.
Except Lemmy seems to have just as many insane extreme “leftists” and tankies that also “both sides” everything.
As someone who takes crazy pills every day, I am highly insulted that you associate me with the Trump administration.
Furthermore, my nipples are in tune with God and tweaking them will grant you his holy message.
I think the middle person is living on the military grade hopium where there’s bound to be a revolution that solves everything, it’s just around the corner too. So why bother trying to get small wins or even slow down the worsening conditions. Revolution will fix everything.
Any day now…
Everybody thinks they’ll come out on top after a “revolution” but they almost certainly will not. Such chaos is far more likely to help than hurt fascists. That’s kind of their jam.
See: Iran.
AAAAnd China. The progressive communist revolution was pioneered by young and ambitious urban intellectuals to fight against warlords, Foreign imperialism, and old China; later also the attempted dictatorship of Chiang Kai-shek. Unfortunately, their hard work was eventually hijacked by conservatives and dictators.
A bit of fun fact: after the communist revolution and cultural revolution, China was slowly stepping towards democracy, through internal CCP reform:
called for the end of bureaucracy, centralisation of power as well as patriarchy, proposing term limits to the leading positions in China and advocating the “democratic centralism” as well as the “collective leadership”.
Deng emphasized that the Constitution must be able to protect the civil rights of Chinese citizens and must reflect the principle of separation of powers; he also described the idea of “collective leadership” and championed the principle of “one man, one vote” among leaders to avoid the dictatorship of the General Secretary of CCP.
Unfortunately, the pro-democracy crowd lost, because they sided with Tiananmen square student protest. Their defeat eventually leads to the Tiananmen Square massacre. And the political power fallen into the hand of the conservatives.
after the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests and massacre, many leading reformists including Zhao and Bao were removed from their posts, and the majority of the planned political reforms (after 1986) ended drastically. Left-wing conservatives led by Chen Yun, President Li Xiannian and Premier Li Peng took control
The pro-democracy leaders were all weakened or arrested after Tiananmen Square massacre:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhao_Ziyang
lost power for his support of the 1989 Tian’anmen Square protests.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu_Qili
he was purged for his sympathy toward the student protesters and his support for General Secretary Zhao Ziyang’s opposition to the use of armed force.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bao_Tong
During the 1989 Tian’anmen square protests, he was one of the very few Chinese senior officials to express understandings with the demonstrating students, which led to his arrest shortly before the June Fourth incident.
So there might be a bizarre alternative world, where Tiananmen Square protest did not happen and China is now a democracy…
Uh, US interference in Iran directly contributed to current affairs of Iran.
Correct, that’s what I’m trying to say. The chaos resulting from the US interference led to the current regime using other factions to, ultimately, get into power and quickly turn against. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.
Also known as accelerationism, yeah
There are only so many ways to get the kind of society that works, and far too many ways for it top go wrong. It’s kind of a crazy idea to think that burning it down and starting over would be beneficial.
Revolution will fix everything.
Me, living in Paris in 1926, excited about how the new commune movement will fix everything permanently
Me, moving to Shanghai two years later, because that are the odds of this happening twice?
I can still remember how the news in fucking Germany changed. Suddenly, once Biden was in office, we didn’t get US politics in our evening news multiple times per week anymore. The United States became silent again.
Make America Boring Again
I long for the days when I thought government was boring and not worth my time. I know too much now too go all the way back, but it’s refreshing to have someone just quietly running the nation without starting a shitstorm every time their ego gets a little bit bruised.
We need to elect PhDs who have proven intellectual rigor and base decisions off data. The current setup is nothing more than a soap opera ran off corporate donations.
No, what we need is for all politicians to have served as teachers, professional childcare providers or medical professionals for at least five years before they can run for federal or state office.
I’m pretty old. Biden has been the best president of my lifetime.
He should be viewed as a national hero for beating Donnie in 2020 and making it stick, which was probably harder than it looked. The US President starting a coup has lots of strings to pull.
I genuinely think that the only reason so many people aren’t able to admit that is because of Gaza.
I deduct credit from a President if they are primarily fixing problems that they themselves caused or greatly assisted in creating throughout their previous political career. In Biden’s case, that means that he is unlikely to get better than absolute neutral due to his incredibly long history of selling out the American people.
I will not give Biden an 11th hour passing grade just because he is up against Trump, he doesn’t deserve to be graded on a curve.
Eh, this is a bit too “moving the finish line” for me. In a super long political career, attitudes shift. I don’t think you can judge someone for, say, cheering about Don’t Ask Don’t Tell (a win for it’s time, but now seen as a crappy half measure) as long as their attitudes shifted. That’s kind of how politics works. 100 years from now current liberal attitudes will be looked down on because they aren’t progressive enough. That’s sort of the definition of progress.
So if I spend my life being a right bastard, like 50 straight years of kicking dogs, stealing from old ladies, being a slum lord and extorting people, breaking people’s legs in mafia style protection rackets, dumping toxic industrial byproducts into rivers, and using my wealth and power to keep and enforce “sundown laws”, but then in my 60s open an animal shelter, fund bingo nights and retirement centers, set up community reinvestment grants, sponsor efforts to get the wetlands to get cleaned up as a Superfund site, and get diversity and equality training implemented for the police department, would I then be considered to be a good person because my attitude shifted? The thousands of people I hurt and potentially indirectly killed over those 50 years don’t count against the good I am now doing?
Even simpler, if I steal and destroy your car, causing you to lose your job because you don’t have transportation which then causes you to lose your home, should I then be praised for giving you a nicer brand new car a year later?
Sticking to politics in case that’s the only place this kind of behavior gets a pass, what if someone didn’t cheer for Don’t Ask Don’t Tell but instead had sponsored bills undoing limitations or bans on gay conversion therapy. Does later supporting a bill making conversion therapy illegal undo the suicides and trauma they inflicted because their apparent attitude has changed? Are they now equal to the person who spent their entire career pushing for gay rights, because this person supported strengthening of domestic partnership laws instead of marriage equality 20-30 years ago? They both support gay rights now, so is saying that the first person is doing the bare minimum and shouldn’t really be called an ally “moving the finish line”?
I think Obama was better in charisma and speeches. Which is motivating. But Biden is damn good.
The Biden Administration maybe. Joe can’t even find his way to stage left
I totally agree, but I also think that every president for the last 50+ years would have walked out of office and into a prison cell in a just world. Judged in that context, Biden looks pretty good.
Also, a ham sandwich would have beaten Trump in 2020. I know this because half the Biden supporters on Reddit were constantly paving over Biden’s deep flaws by pointing out that they would pick a ham sandwich over Trump. I have no idea why it was always a ham sandwich. All Biden had to do was hide in his basement and not say anything mind-blisteringly stupid. That and avoid catching COVID from Trump on the debate stage.
You’re quite literally an idiot if this isn’t disingenuous
This guy LOVES a good old fashioned genocide.
Look at all these fucking Russian/MAGA trolls in the comments trying to play a “both sides” thing.
I was there. I lived through both. You can go fuck yourself. Like trump.
There’s a visibly coordinated effort to trash Biden and/or democrats on lemmy. The commentary is all the same. They use some form of “both sides” blaming both democrats and republicans for being awful while attacking voting for either. They focus hard on Israel and call Biden “Genocide Joe” or some similar derogatory term. Overall, they always pick at Biden’s policy completely devoid of nuance while never discussing Trump’s policies past or planned. I got several posts removed from /world calling out such similar comments.
Conversely, every single time someone makes a legitimate criticism of Biden or the Democratic establishment (and there are many to be made), someone dismisses it as “both sides”.
Democrats are undoubtedly better than Republicans. Biden is undoubtedly better than Trump. Both parties are still corrupted by mega-donors and entrenched elitism.
I have no problem with legitimate criticism. There’s plenty to criticize. However, when that criticism is derogatory, often baseless, and comes with the aforementioned attacks on voting, you bet your *** that there was nothing constructive about it.
The only people propping up their argument these days with “both sides” are the willfully uneducated and the conservatives.
I’m willfully educated and a Bernie Democrat, and I’ve been accused of making “both sides” arguments many, many times. It’s almost a guarantee that it will come out in response to any criticism of Democrats.
I don’t disagree about disengenuous conservatives making bad equivalency or “uni-party” arguments. However, it’s also true that the establishment consensus across both parties is very much outside the needs and desires of mainstream Americans.
I’m just pointing out of that it’s really easy to accidentally throw the baby out with the bathwater, and it’s not in the long term interests of the Democratic party to derail serious criticism.
Show us this “serious criticism”. It needs to be:
- sourced, or very well established facts, i.e. winner of an election (not including The Big Lie of course)
- longer than one paragraph
- have an original point
Bernie Bros are a thing. Not that you’re a Bernie Bro, just that - Trump-supporting Bernie people most definitely exist and are famous for crapping in threads. As a Bernie person myself, I don’t mean offense, I’m saying it’s easy to say “hey i’m a progressive, but Biden sucks” and that’s actually what we’re calling out here. That’s a russian troll mainstay. Actual reasoned criticism is . . . rare at best.
Bernie Bros are a thing.
Please try and apply your criteria to that statement. Write it up with multiple paragraphs with ample citations, add something original to it, then, frankly, shove it up your ass.
Here’s a record of all things Biden… https://twitter.com/PushBidenLeft
I mean sure it looks good I guess but I’m not holding my breath that the White House office of gun violence prevention is going to stop mass shootings.
All this stuff is designed to sound good on paper but then what’s the real impact?
Yeah, what could canceling 144 billion Dollars in student loan debt do?
Yeah that would make my life significantly better. Has that passed the courts yet?
You mean the challenge from the republiQans? That you’re siding with?
Here’s how Biden defied the Supreme Court to cancel $144 billion in student loans
Yeah. Now what do you have to say. Let me guess, it’s not enough.
“President Joe Biden unveiled another round in his steady drip of student debt write-offs on Thursday, announcing that 78,000 public sector workers would not have to repay $6 billion in loans. … Biden’s previous loan cancellation plan was ruled illegal by the Supreme Court. However, his more recent debt transfers rest on a different legal authority than the original, $400 billion-plus plan.”
Emphasis mine. Literally cut his own demands by two orders of magnitude because he didn’t want to pack the court. I’m very glad those small fraction of borrowers got some relief. We all deserve that.
Yes OK, but apart from all that, what has Biden ever done?
He mAdE tHe pRiCe oF cHeeSe Go uP!
biden sitting in the office, twiddling the “cheese price” knob and giggling to himself
This video is about 2020 in general, but it really encapsulates the news style Trump fostered. Just a firehose of garbage that overwhelms the senses. And it’s only gotten worse.
I believe Steve Bannon’s quote was, “flood the zone with shit.” News is by definition, new, so if you never give people a chance to talk about what happened 5 hours ago, nobody is ever pissed off for the same reason.
“flood the zone with shit.”
This is pretty much just how US media has always worked.
no, it absolutely is not.
this is a new thing, which really started with 9/11.
this is a new thing,
I guess you don’t remember the garbage they were peddling in US media back in the 80s and 90s?
From wikipedia:
First presented in their 1988 book Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media, the propaganda model views corporate media as businesses interested in the sale of a product—readers and audiences—to other businesses (advertisers) rather than the pursuit of quality journalism in service of the public. Describing the media’s “societal purpose”, Chomsky writes, “… the study of institutions and how they function must be scrupulously ignored, apart from fringe elements or a relatively obscure scholarly literature”. The theory postulates five general classes of “filters” that determine the type of news that is presented in news media. These five classes are: ownership of the medium, the medium’s funding sources, sourcing, flak, and anti-communism or “fear ideology”.
It did intensify after 9/11 - but it was only an intensification of what was already there.
ah, I suppose I’ll concede - I was referring to the 24/7 flood of shit (which was a distinct change in intensification of the flood), but you were just meaning a flood of shit.
It’s an interesting quesiton. I would argue the launch of USA Today followed relatively closely by Fox News is what started it.
many people weren’t around then, 11-9 was more than 20 years ago
Many were, though. And they’re telling you that’s what happened.
Anything from the first page should have disqualified him.
Like how do people like that exist with themselves all with coming up with an opinion and just not researching it let alone questioning it for a second just to be debased in a matter of seconds. And that’s giving them the benefit of the doubt. Deep down I think they are trolling.
I think it’s just because the media reports the negative things that happened under Trump more loudly than they reported the positive things under Biden.
Of course they are. After all the allure of spreading fake news anonymously is strong indeed. In such environment default stance is trolling and conscious effort is required to not to when there are no consequences.
they are definitely a troll and I’m with you on that. there is always a slim possibility there is someone who will read this shit and actually swallows it. So it’s exhausting when so many bots and trolls suck up time of others who are trying to run triage.
And yeah, I wish there were better and more effective consequences than ‘tell a mod’ cuz that doesn’t do shit on meta or Reddit or x
Advanced trolls are almost indistinguishable except that they seemingly drastically change opinions every other comment. Best you can do is just refute the comment as it is and quickly end it.
Just click on the username and read their comment history. It’s pretty simple.
We should train a neural network that will detect this. We have the technology. Create a profile of political views and likes of a user, and if it is too chaotic, eliminate the dissenter with a well-placed Improvised Explosive Device.
Alternatively, we can carry out a precise air strike on the subversive element. For example with a General Atomics MQ-1 Predator remotely piloted aircraft.
Like how do people like that exist with themselves
In 2016 it was reported by several places that tens of millions of Americans can’t absorb a sudden $400 expense without going further into debt. That number has grown significantly under Biden, which is why people don’t care about articulating their opinion of why he’s a bad president. (For instance, in 2023, homelessness jumped 12%)
Their lives just got harder, and that experience is all they need.
Are there any lemmy servers that consist of more moderate and centrist or even moderate right-leaning people? I don’t like solely participating in the echo chambers, because if you don’t think like the liberal hivemind you get insulted repeatedly with no meaningful discussion, and the talking points are combative instead of philosophical or thought provoking. Surely there are less extremist communities on lemmy somewhere?
The problem is I want a home feed where left-wing political stances and memes aren’t crammed into every possible row, and lemmy users seem to spend significant amounts of brain power making anti-right wing memes and whatnot, so instead of having useful meaningful entertaining content it’s just political garbage and left-wing propaganda. Might have to just make my own instance and somehow filter out the useless political rhetoric noise I guess.
I sincerely doubt you have much to add that is philosophical or thought provoking, if this (honestly tired old image) was enough to make you respond like anyone who criticizes Trump, or attacks bad takes about how both sides are bad, makes everyone here extremists. And now you must flee to a safe haven where nobody does that? Is that not… Seeking to participate in a different echo chamber? Do you not see how ridiculous that is?
Not participating so much as reading the hivemind room temp IQ drivel that usually comes with the territory is just a complete waste of time because there’s nothing interesting or valuable in any way. I’m still on the hunt for better circles as is tradition. Eventually I’m going to write my own javascript extension for firefox to help mitigate some of the overly politically biased posts and comments in the main feeds, which will likely have to work over time as I start building regular expression rules and whatnot and start doing weighted statistics. Might actually be a good use case to start using Python to start classification systems as I aggregate the datasets. Might even be an interesting case for machine learning. I think I might actually do that now that I think about it…
I’m not sure revoking the permitting of keystone was a good move?
Ok. So orange man is a fucking maniac.
But rejoining the Paris agreement is just dumb without intention or interest of fulfilling it. So many countries have signed it just for show. Leaving it and calling it bullshit virtue signalling is actually better.
Look at the statistics for the countries. It’s not doing anything than green washing.
The other points is probably true and great. But the Paris agreement is pure trash.
- Damn. I was mistaken. Guess promises will solve the climate crisis. Not action.
The reality is people posting this copium are just upset at the prospect of having to return to opposing the state. Having Biden in power meant you didn’t have to give a shit who lived and who died because “Trump could be worse”. The idea that you’d “hold him to account” was an objective lie and has allowed you all to sleepwalk into an inevitable victory for someone way more evil than the guy who spent his younger years advocating for killing women and children in Beirut.
If Biden wins, someone like Trump is inevitable in 4 years’ time. Either way you’re in the weimar republic now.
Having Biden in power meant you didn’t have to give a shit who lived and who died because “Trump could be worse”.
I do have to give a shit, but that’s because I’m in a red state.
As a Texas resident, I get to see a new draconian set of fascist laws constrict around Harris County with every State Congressional cycle.
The Biden DOJ doesn’t intervene. The local Democrats (John Whitmire, our Houston Mayor, is a prime example) just roll over in the face of it. And folks who protest to loud or too long routinely find themselves dead in the state prison system (the one with cells that go up to 100 degrees in the summer).
“Oh but look at what Biden has done for California and Minnesota and Delaware, tho!”
Yeah, thanks. I don’t live there.
Folks in Texas and Florida and South Carolina and the Dakotas are getting thrown to the fucking wolves.
Oh wow it managed to miss the fucking point entirely
