I just want more car options and less truck/SUV options
hear hear.
I want to buy a honda plug-in hybrid.
they only make a fucking SUV plug-in hybrid.
RIP Honda Clarity
tell me about it. my kingdom for a Civic plug-in hybrid.
Jazz Hybrid?
i dont believe I can drive a car called a Jazz
Why not? It’s music. Music is nice
I just want a Citroën Ami in America
This is exactly what I want, I don’t need 300 miles of range, I don’t need luxury entertainment systems. I need a simple vehicle with decently comfortable seats and a shitty Walmart $80 bluetooth head unit. In Europe and various parts of China / Japan you can get a small electric vehicle for like 8,000 US dollars and that’s what I want here God damn it
Honestly that would be great - make the head unit similar to a car from '07/'08 and then if we want to upgrade it wity something aftermarket, we can. Then we can choose what bells and whistles we want.
No autopilot, not internet connected BS. Heck I’d even go without adaptive cruise control and lane assist.
07/08 really was one of the best eras for car interior, because the head units weren’t usually integrated into the dash, meaning you didn’t have to replace trim pieces with your unit in order to upgrade the damned stereo.
Heck the lane assist, adaptive cruise, and auto pilot isn’t that crazy pricy either.
The comma 3 plus harness is 1500.
I think a large part of the move towards integrated head units had to do with the mandated rear backup camera that necessitates a decent sized screen in the dash in order to use it. The death of CD’s and CD changers also allowed for the screens to grow in size. Lastly, the touchscreens themselves are ever cheaper to manufacture. I love the giant screen in my Chevy Bolt - especially given the Google integration means I don’t have to use the nonsense baked in apps from Chevy.
300 is more than I need, but I do want 200 miles of range.
I would absolutely buy the Mini if I could expect to go over a hundred miles from 80-20% for 10 years, but with a 110 mile range on day one, that just isn’t happening. The 2025 model is rumored to have increased range. If that’s the case, I’ll probably get one.
but I do want 200 miles of range
But why?
It seems like many people (me too) base what they think they’ll need off of what they’re accustomed to. My car will get 275-300 miles out of a tank of gas so it just seems crazy to accept less than half of that. But I don’t actually drive that much. Trips where I start full and have to refill before my destination are very rare. Doubling the refueling stops and extending their length wouldn’t actually bother me much, especially considering that for my day to day my car would just charge overnight and I never have to go out of my way for it. I guess what I’m getting at is that if I really think about it, a 110-150 mile range is probably about as much as I should be paying for.
My EV has 280km range and it’s a bit short. I would prefer to have 450km.
Reasons:
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charging above 80% is slow and bad for the baterry, you also don’t go to 0% before charging. so on most days I don’t actually have 280km range, more like 200km
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I drive more during the weekend, usually just around 200-300km. I can charge for free at work but with 280 range I can’t charge for the whole weekend which would be nice and would reduce my costs to nearly 0
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on longer trips 280km means a stop for charging about every 2h. Make it 3h and it would be perfect
280km is enough for daily driving but in my case, 50% bigger battery would a big improvement overall.
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In my case I live in a place where cities are spread out and where it gets cold in the winter. My parents live 40 mile away and don’t have an EV charger or a 220v outlet in their garage. Take 10% max range off in the winter, and I would have to use the only charging station (Tesla supercharger) or spend at least 6 hours charging at their house to be comfortable getting home in case of extra traffic or detours. I semi regularly drive even further, 80-100 miles one way. I’d have to stop to charge on my way there and on my way back in the winter, adding at least 30 minutes to an already 2 hour drive. There is also poor charging density on the route, so it has to be planned.
I drive a plug in hybrid now, and can get to work and home on battery only, but only in the summer and no extra stops or alternate routes are possible. People start getting antsy under a 1/4-1/8th tank of gas, it’s worse with battery. Add to that I am able to charge at home, if you have to go visit a charging station because you live in a ln apartment or townhouse without garage space, you need at least 5 days of charge range between fill ups, because most everyone isn’t going to want to add a 30 minute stop to charge daily.
That is absolutely correct. 110-150 miles of range is exactly what I want. Actually, I was figuring 100 miles at and-of-life, which is basically 120, or or so, at purchase.
The reason I say I will not buy a sub-200 mile car is that one doesn’t drive an EV from 100% to 0% charge. Everyone I know runs 80/20. That takes 40% off the top. A 200-mile car is only good for 120 without pushing the battery.
Those numbers don’t even take into account the fact that when I do want to travel 100+ miles, I’m not doing it on city streets at 20 mph. Freeway driving can be expected to take at least another 15% off the EPA range, considerably more with climate control and music.
Suddenly, even with that 200-mile car, I’m looking at a drive to Sacramento trying to decide whether to over charge, stop on the way, or drive slow with no tunes and no AC. That’s OK with me. I’m willing to make adjustments for the benefits of running electric, but I’m not going to get something that can’t be used for longer trips.
I think it largely boils down to 2 things: How spread out things are in the US that can result in longer trips rather frequently, and the lack of electric car infrastructure.
These 2 things combined mean people are more concerned about the range that they can get compared to an ICE car. The only EV chargers I know of in my town are just down the street from me and are locked up 24/7 because they’re on the property of an elementary school (stupid idea on the town’s part putting them there). This would mean that if I had an at home charger and an EV with a 100 mile range, I could get about 45 miles out before I would have to turn around and come back to charge it. If I want to go to the city for something (a day trip to the museum, for example), that’s 75 miles - one way. I used to make that drive daily in my old RAV-4 for work, and it isn’t a big deal when the round trip would be a half a tank of gas, but that would mean about 25 miles of battery to find a charger once I get there, or finding at least one stop on the way up and probably on the way back as well. And that’s in optimal conditions. I never saw any EV chargers on that commute in the 5 years I had that job, so it would probably mean going out of the way to find charging stations, which would add additional miles to your battery usage.
Once the charging infrastructure is more robust (and hopefully isn’t monopolized by Tesla), I think this kind of thing will be much less of a concern, but people are still going to be bothered by it if they have to stop for long periods of time frequently in order to charge their car.
In China they’re more like $1000
Don’t they also burst into flames though? I’m not sure that’s the one for me.
They probably don’t.
A surprisingly small amount of products need to malfunction before people get the idea that they all will.
I still hear about how my Samsung phone will explode any second now.
No, you’re thinking of Teslas.
The models sold in my country haven’t burst into flame yet, and they sold a lot of units here. Honestly, EV fire is my biggest worry, so I’ll probably wait for another year before considering getting a chinese ev to see if there is no fire incidents or other dealbreaking issues, but they’re looking pretty solid so far.
It’s okay, you’ll have money left over for the medical bills.
Naa, sadly I’m in america. I’ll still be forced into bankruptcy.
Asia didn’t have so many dodge rams.
You sure about the tiny 6 car?
An Electric car for 8k€? Where, how, what? Cheapest new I’ve seen is roughly 35k
The Citroen Ami is one, starts around £7700 last i saw, tho it’s a little slow. There were some better ones around 10-13k but i can’t remember their names
We, the consumers, have also been saying that. Like, for a while.
Yes - but a quick glance at the insane profit margins on large SUVs/trucks will tell you why this sadly hasn’t happened.
Something’s gotta give though…
The problem is they’re also adding all this other shit that adds up costs. Just make a car, but it doesn’t use gasoline. That’s it.
I got a barebones Chevy Bolt. Simple car - absolutely perfect for the city at times when public transport isn’t an option.
What’s more - it has AndroidAuto/Carplay (mandatory in any future car purchase for me).
GM subsequently cancelled the model (though rumours say they’ll bring it back?) and are building bigger cars instead. Ridiculous.
What we need is a smaller, practical EVs and a robust charging infrastructure. (especially in condos/rentals)
Similar experience from a European.
I own a 2015 Vauxhall Adam. It’s a brilliant little petrol car, 3 doors, very small and very reliable.
GM canned the model in 2019. It makes no sense to me, if they had stuck a battery in it for an electric version I’d have been sold in a heartbeat.
But no, GM wants to focus on big cars that I don’t want. I don’t want anything bigger than a 3 door hatchback, I’m only 20 and have no kids, why do I need some massive fuckoff SUV???
I will never understand how the same people that made the Volt and the Bolt made the Hummer EV
It’s such a different style, architecture, and platform that you practically can’t share any parts. So whatever they learned from 10 years of selling EVs went out the window.
Unfortunately, GM wants to get rid of Android Auto and Apple Carplay. They want to exclusively use Android Automotive. It looks like Android Auto but it’s standalone. GM claims this way the smart software will be more integrated with the car’s hardware… which sounds ridiculous to me.
Edit: More clear (I hope)
It’s utterly ridiculous. I will not buy a car without AA/Carplay (I don’t want Android Automotive).
There’s so much wrong with their proposal. I don’t want my credentials to persist on a shared car! I already have a device that I take with me that has all the connectivity/data I want.
Basically, if ‘forced’ to buy a car without AA/Carplay they’d better throw in a suction cup mount to stick over top of of the built in display so I can use the device I already pay for…
The true purpose is most likely the car has more of your info. Probably a mix of gathering metrics on their cars and selling your data.
Oh - undoubtedly. And potential revenue stream from services. None of this is for the benefit of the consumer.
Some of the aftermarket AA kits are actually pretty decent. we basically have a big tablet mounted over the original dash of the safira .
Any suggestions? Which do you use?
Can’t find the exact model we bought of aliexpress a few years ago. But I’d recommend watching some reviews on the Chinese AA screens. Good working ones are a dime in a dozen sadly.
GM claims this way the smart software will be more integrated with the car’s hardware… which sounds ridiculous to me.
They likely want to go the Tesla route: features people have to pay multiple times for, rented features, recalls via software update, etc. I believe investors rewarded them when they made this announcement. Everyone should know that in most cases what’s good for investors is bad for customers.
I suspect that Chevy is worried they won’t be able to compete against the Kia EV price point, but that’s just speculation.
But don’t you want your car to sing to you while it drives itself like a maniac during rush hour because the AI literally wants to beat traffic (very physically).
Og VW Beetle, but aluminum and EV please.
Same for the VW Golf
I’m so confused why they don’t sell the id4 as a sporty hatchback and call it the GEI or something. It’s the same platform, just tweak the suspension and add some more beefy motors, kinda like the whole idea behind the GTI
Because then people will stop buying the combustion cars, with which they make more money.
They did make the e-golf. Not gti, but still a golf.
And the id3 which is pretty much the same size
They are giving americans what they want. The real problem is continuing to feed the deep rooted car addiction brought on by lobbying and corporate greed. There has not been a better time to instead invest heavily on public transportation, build extension inter-state, inter-city train systems, subway or rail systems for cities. Overtime phasing out freeways and replacing them walkable districts. I understand this won’t happen over night and cities like Houston and LA are sprawling cities of 100s of miles but it needs to start somewhere and it starts with heavy investment from the federal government. Time to finally invest the tax money back to the taxpayers not defense, wars (direct, proxy or funded) and foreign affairs in the name of “national security”. How about domestic security from corporate greed, price gouging, poor education, horrible Healthcare are system, costly drug prices to say the least. I understand for all these there’s need to be a massive social change booth in the country and in the world’s largest retirement home, US Congress.
They aren’t. They are making larger vehicles to keep up with the demands for fuel efficiency (in gasoline vehicles) and max range in electric vehicles because of NHTSA regulations.
There absolutely have been better times to invest in public transit and expansion of transit systems. You require skilled man power for those things. Not just to build them but to upkeep them. And we’re at a time where there are a lot of things that will need to be fixed first or we won’t be able to have nice things. The mental health crisis for one, and homelessness/ rising housing costs for another. Adding infrastructure skyrockets the cost of living making affordable housing farther out of reach, and that adds fuel to the fire where the mental health crisis is concerned. You touch on corporate greed but you don’t outright say we need more regulation. We do. But to get it we have to have people to enforce it. We don’t have that either.
I always see the argument for making areas more walkable. But I like a good chunk of Americans live in a subdivision and unless they tear down my neighbors homes to build stores I need to walk like 20 minutes to get anywhere I can purchase something. That said I used to live in Chicago and everything was walkable, however the population density made it possible. I don’t think you can simply make a place more walkable unless the population density supports it.
I feel a way to combat suburban hellholes is to at least make it more cycle-friendly in those areas. Big stroads kill any chance of people being able to cycle to stores, I feel a lot of people don’t want to have to drive to get to a Walmart, especially in hot months and would probably prefer to bike it instead. There’s obviously also the health benefits of people cycling too. For those more lazy individuals, e-bikes and e-scooters are a good idea that can help them rely less on their car too, and are far cheaper to run than a full car.
Eliminating huge sprawling suburbs is a monumental task, but we can at least apply patch fixes for some things at the moment.
Why tear anything down? With zoning changes we could re-allow neighbors to build Front yard businesses like small grocers and cafes again
Everytime I consider buying an EV I do some research and they always seem to have all of the bells and whistles. Then I get to price and it’s like $60,000+ and I can’t help but wonder how much cheaper it could be without all of the added features.
Edit: I’m not going to reply to everyone and I really should have mentioned since it’s not immediately obvious but I’m Australian. No Chevy volt and and all vehicles are imported increasing prices on top of the usual AUD imbalance.
This. Just this, so much. How much would a battery, an electric engine and safety shit cost?
I’ve seen conversion kits for old trucks under $10k. So there’s your answer.
Unfortunately said kits are often lacking in range unless you’re willing to fill your truck box with batteries, because you can’t really retrofit a “skateboard” style battery.
I literally want that skateboard with seats and a steering wheel. Hell, give me a diesel burning heater and a washer fluid bulb I have to stomp on like I have in my old truck, I’m not picky
I just bought a used 2022 Polestar 2 under 20k miles for $35k.
Chevy bolt at least has half of the features but still quite a few, I would say a very set of features to include, but I do imagine it would only shave less than 5k if the bolt had the most basic of features. That means it would be 1-2k cheaper as a used vehicle. I do think it’s the more reasonable priced vehicle, and we need more competitors to this vehicle. On the other hand, most of the cost is the battery and it just something researchers must be paid to bring innovations for and its just not reasonable to pay them cheap as they are doing a great thing for humanity. However, this forces companies to charge higher prices and should instead be subsidized without trademark/IP protections restricting its adoption.
And they almost killed the Bolt.
The only reason they didn’t is because China is getting ready to ship stupid cheap cars to the US.
Is that true? Last I heard they couldn’t pass safety regulations.
I would be for it, we need more companies to show Hyundai how to child proof cars… By child proof I mean making sure the car isn’t so easy to steal, a child could do it.
China can’t but their corporations are welcome to submit cars to American testing to sell here. Look up Greely Automotive.
Greely Automotive.
I have never heard of them. I’m not knowledgeable on cars but their newest generation looks very interesting. If they can break the US market, I hope they can lower prices. Thank you for bringing them to my attention.
Last year I bought new Citroen e-berlingo for 25.000€. It would be €32.000 without subsidies but still not 60.000.
This. For most of my trips I could use a glorified golf cart.
I can’t be the only one who has noticed the uptick in the negative EV press lately. Is this the same death throws akin to the buggy whip lobby of yore?
Edit* price needs to be attainable for the many for sure… but the amount of negative press is “sus” (as the kids say)
People are genuinely unimpressed with the high prices and low range numbers on what are supposed to be the next generation of vehicles. Volume and tech advancement were supposed to make them cheap and practical, but all that’s gone up is the price.
Especially with talk of banning the sale of gas vehicles in the fairly near future, they are going to have to do a lot better than this or a lot of people are just going to end up without any vehicle at all.
Myself living in a rural, cold climate, 200km from any major center, nobody has made any practical vehicle for me yet. I even already own an EV, but it’s really just a powerful golf cart. Once it gets much below freezing, I’m lucky to make it to a neighbour’s place and back.
I think a lot of people are just acknowledging that things haven’t gotten that much better with EVs. I think the lack of charging infrastructure charging time, and range make EVs impractical for many in the USA. Many could commute in one just fine but for long trips they just would be a hassle. Plus they are on average way too expensive.
Honestly, cheaper and smaller cars across the board would be nice. Everything is a fucking tank now.
Yep, because of a loophole in pollution regulation
A bit of a cobra bite.
Or, ya know, invest in battery tech so it’s more convenient to charge cars and push for gas stations and parking lots to all have chargers.
or make the battery replaceable
I understand that automakers don’t want to make plug-in hybrids because of the complexity, but mine has served me well and most of the time I can stay within the electric range (where sometimes I go a whole year without having to fill up on gas). With my use case, it’s actually better for the environment than a full EV since the battery doesn’t have to be so huge.
Regardless, if these automakers don’t get their act together, they’re going to be destroyed by cheap Chinese EVs, just like how US automakers got destroyed by Japanese vehicles during the oil embargo and periods of high gas prices. Maybe they’ll just lobby the government to lock out the Chinese competition one way or another.
I still think BMW had the right idea with the range extender on the i3 - make a small electric car, stick a gasoline generator in the boot just in case.
Aaaaand they cancelled the i3
They claim they discontinued it because “customers want bigger EVs”, which is half the truth - people want a bigger EV with longer range when they pay $50k for one. I love the i3, but it was an expensive car designed 10 years ago for the market of 10 years ago. Still, the idea was great, I hope other manufacturers eventually see it as the next step for hybrids.
Donald Trumps tariffs have been a disaster
There are great EVs out there but trump blocked them. We have all lost out
I saw in Asia there is a Chinese EV, I think the brand is Wuling for about ~13-15k with about 180 miles of range. Small car but perfect for local driving.
Wuling and BYD absolutely dominates cheap EV segment in Asia. Their small EVs basically cost almost a quarter of Hyundai Ioniq 5.
Nissan leaf… IS FIFTY GRAND?! +custom charger +shit range… yeah I’ll keep my 10yr old dino burning corolla mate.
Seems like it starts at $28k before tax credits? Base model of course, but still…
https://www.nissanusa.com/vehicles/electric-cars/leaf.html
Edit: Also, not to say that’s cheap by any means, but in line with other inflated gas auto prices.
In the US maybe.
In Europe you can get an ICE car for the equivalent of about 12k USD. Which is considerably better than what most EVs are going for.
Do you mean used or new(granted, I don’t know new car prices) but you can get working used ICE cars for under $1000 in the US.
Well I’m comparing like for like, so new for new.
There’s no point talking about second-hand EVs because they basically don’t drop in price. This is because they don’t really wear out they only have about 12 moving parts or something so nothing really can go wrong (unless it’s a Tesla obviously).
The trouble with that is they never go down in price, they’re always expensive. It comes to something when a second-hand EV costs more than a brand new ICE. It’s especially annoying because I will be in the market for a new car in maybe a year, I love for it to be an EV but I don’t have that kind of money. Just to be clear here, I’m not exactly living paycheck to paycheck and I’m fairly well off, and even I can’t afford an EV.
Unless various governments around the world start subsidising them I don’t see how we’re going to progress.
What’s going to happen is that gasoline will become increasingly expensive as oil becomes increasingly scarce, and eventually only the wealthy will be able to afford private vehicles. Assuming we get that far.
The Nissan leaf is a crap car. Pretty much every EV is better than the Nissan leaf, I don’t understand how it costs the amount it costs.
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It’s almost like the people who buy EVs are doing it to save money.
The money saving is the bait on the hook, but once you change there is no return. It’s just so much better in every way
How about cold weather?
Range goes down by about 1/3rd. Bad, but most people drive 40 miles/day in the US, so going from 300 miles to 200 miles doesnt really matter.
Nothing a blow torch won’t solve. Will heat that batter up right quick.
Can confirm. Was shopping around for cars, and settled on either a 2023 WRX Limited, or a fully loaded 2022 Polestar 2. Both around $37k in the US. Chose the Polestar, and now I don’t have to pay for gas, let alone premium gas
Also I heard that EVs are alot cheaper to maintain, due to rare malfunctions, because so few moving parts in the car.
It was even a big topic at my local mechanic because they didn’t earn any money on EVs.
Sounds amazing for consumers.
Can your local mechanic even service EVs? The parts that are different, I mean. Obviously they can all do tires and the like.
Hey Polestar buddy! I just got one too.
Nice! I’m loving mine! Such a cool car
How do you know that?
I don’t.
It’s just a guess, but it’s also the main reason I’m looking for a plug-in hybrid.
Or people need to give up the idea of taking three tons of metal to work with them every day.
Happy too just as soon as work locate themselves somewhere that’s actually accessible via public transport. And not in some out of town business park with only road access and no cycling facilities.
Also they need to change the weather so it never rains or snows and is always warm but not too warm.
If they start doing those things then we can talk.
Also they need to change the weather so it never rains or snows and is always warm but not too warm.
I love when people say stuff like this. It’s the “I’m not even going to try” comment. If children in Finland can bike to school in the winter, I think your adult self can deal with a little bit of not-ideal weather sometimes. You just have to dress for it, and not expect to always be isolated from the environment like some people want to be for some reason.
yeah most weather you can easily deal with by dressing appropriately and accepting that you’re not going to be 100% comfortable all the time, especially when the distances aren’t too long. That said, I did have to endure some horrid weather as a kid on my bike to school that I’m not sure I’d want to put someone else through
just as soon as work locate themselves somewhere that’s actually accessible via public transport
Might be easier to enact WFH and vote for more public transportation funding. Waiting for a company to choose to do anything on their own is a little naive, though.
Also they need to change the weather so it never rains or snows and is always warm but not too warm.
Well as long as our expectations are realistic.
If they start doing those things then we can talk.
Most reasonable pro-SUV advocate award.
Reading comprehension skills are lacking I see
The comment I was replying to was saying that electric vehicles are not viable and instead we should move away from private vehicle ownership. I was responding by pointing out why we still need private vehicle ownership.
I didn’t make a comment about the method of proportion those private vehicles use.
The comment you replied to didn’t say anything of the sort, though I understand you interpreted it in that way.
Or people need to give up the idea of taking three tons of metal to work with them every day.
It literally says that, it literally says people shouldn’t be taking their car to work with them. How else am I supposed to interpret it?
Smaller vehicles will likely be a lot more viable for most of us, rather than an expensive electric car.
Electric bikes, for example. Certainly on a “last few miles” basis. If you live further than that, then public transport will end up being the bulk of it.
Public transport should be heavily subsidised.
Maybe the prices of electric cars will come down to acceptable levels, but I suspect that there’s a layer of people who could just about afford to keep a 10 year-old petrol banger on the road, who won’t have that option under electric vehicles. Something needs to be provided and quickly.
It literally says “Or people need to give up the idea of taking three tons of metal to work with them every day.”
You said:
The comment I was replying to was saying that electric vehicles are not viable and instead we should move away from private vehicle ownership.
Funnily enough, NONE of the words in your interpretation of their comment are in the original, not even the articles or connective words (what are even the odds that two sentences of more than 15 words not sharing at least ONE word?). The good-faith interpretation (the one they provided to this comment) would be they were advocating for subsidizing more public transport and increasing the usage of cheaper and smaller personal electric bikes, or cheaper and smaller cars in general.
Instead, you went with ‘this person is scolding me for my car’, and wrote an ironic comment placing the call to action on companies relocating to public transportation hubs and controlling the fucking weather, before which you would even engage in a conversation - presumably a conversation about ‘giving up the idea of taking three tons of metal to work with you every day’, but I’ll admit I don’t know.
Seems to me like you took the comment as a personal attack on your decision to own a car, but I think @Blackmist@feddit.uk would put the call to action on subsidizing public transportation and designing more walk-able and bike-friendly cities.
Nobody can help you if you’re afraid of the weather though.
