If you’re making 150k and are living paycheck to paycheck you either live in a crazy expensive area or are a total fucking idiot when it comes to managing your money.
Rent in NYC where I live is insane. My partner and I recently toured a place where they broke up the basement of a building into 4 apartments, none of which had a real bedroom, and were asking for $3k each
This is a trend everywhere, I just recently moved to different apartment and I’d say 8/10 apartments I saw on Zillow and the other sites were these “open concept” or whatever 1 bedrooms and hallway kitchens. It’s depressing
Look at the positive side. When sea levels start rising, you’d be first to notice that!
Try making $150k in a “reasonably priced area.” It can be done, but is not the norm. The problem is that to make a good salary, you have to be in a place that pays those wages. Obviously, this attracts more people, so real estate is more expensive.
The trick is to make $150k in some kind of sweet spot where housing does not compensate. But it’s always a moving target and is extremely difficult. Then in you lose your job? Start all over again.
You just explained how work from home jobs will transform how people buy housing and where they buy it.
Let’s pump up the flyover real estate market?
Yeah, my job went remote in 2020 and this year I moved out of the city and just bought my first house in my home state where the cost of living is almost 1/2 of my former city. I
could’vewould’ve never bought a place where I was before. I’m sure someone would have loaned me the money but that felt like a death sentence for my small amount of disposable income.I make $150k and learned to manage a very strict budget living in the city. Now I have some disposable income and my own house with a yard.
I started working remotely and then left America. Now I live in a very low cost of living city and haven’t owed more than 1-2% taxes in years… It blows my mind that more people don’t do this.
Where did you go? And how do you not pay fed taxes working for an American company? Or is it a foreign company?
Georgia (the country) and Turkey mostly.
Qualifying for the FEIE (stay out of America for 330 days per year) means you don’t pay taxes on the first $120k you earn. Maxing out the 401k ($22,500) will reduce taxable income as well so it’s really like the first $142,500 is tax free.
I work for an American company as a W2 employee.
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Because in your world, mobile home trailer parks are free or even exist in urban areas. Come on. A studio apartment around here starts at $1600/mo. The average home sale price in this area in 2022 was $580k. At 10% down, 30 year fixed, at 6.5% interest, after taxes and fees, that’s a mortgage payment of about $4000/mo. Plus about $300-600/mo if you have an HOA/COA. Plus repairs as needed.
Your net take home pay at $150k, after taxes only, is about $9k, making your mortgage 45% of your income. That doesn’t include health insurance, retirement, or any other paycheck deductions.
It doesn’t include transportation: payments, gas, repairs, tolls, or insurance.
That doesn’t include utilities: gas, electric, water, trash, phone, or internet.
That doesn’t include food, supplies, clothing, or personal care.
And it sure as shit doesn’t include medical issues. God help you if you’re a diabetic.
And kids? What are you, fucking Rockefeller? Daycare, schooling (yes, even public schools cost money because of all the extras they ask you to provide like supplies, lunch, etc), and all their needs. At at least 16 years before they might be able to pay rent, that’s a long time for a free tenant sharing your resources.
Plus all of life’s extra costs.
And looking at Zillow, I can’t find any properties within 10 miles of me going for less than $600k. They got townhomes for 1.2 million just down the block. $580k for a house is gonna be hard to find, and probably not in the best condition. Doable, possibly, but not easy.
Hmmm you’re not going to be making 150k a year in a shit fly over state.
I moved from the Bay Area to the East side of Washington near Seattle, folks here don’t make as much as I do for sure, at least not on average. We both have good salaries so we can afford a lot of things. We essentially got to keep most of our bay area salaries.
But even then if we need a big repair we still have to sit down and plan out the money.
I can’t even imagine what it’s like for folks around here.
I live in Nebraska, and all comp included make around 155k per year salary + bonus. You can make that kind of money even here in the “shit”
What’s your title?
I’m a software architect, though even when I was just a senior java developer I was making 130k, software pays well even in the fly overs.
I’m a level 2 Engineer and I make close to what you’re making TC. Hopefully maybe more come next year. And I don’t work for the big 5. I work for a hospital group. Seniors make well close to double that in TC. Principals make slightly more.
Also there are more jobs for higher levels than in non tech hubs. Career wise you’ll probably be making more complex systems too.
You have it good for sure, but you’re the outlier my guy.
I know that, I was just refuting the claim that “your not going to make that kind of money in a flyover state”, it is possible, and you don’t have to work the big 5 here either, and the cost of living is way less.
Go look at a mortgage or even rent in any major city.
Hi, this is pretty much me, and I concur. If you can’t live on $150k then you are definitely making some questionable decisions. That’s around $8k/m take home. Even if you are spending $4k on rent/mortgage, you should have plenty left over to live on.
Do you have kids?
I’m pretty sure I covered the questionable decisions.
Yeah, if you’re a single man who doesn’t have anyone to take care of and has no physical or mental health problems $150k is great. If you’re part of a house with two incomes you’re probably OK. If you’re on a single incoming supporting parents with disabilities, kids, partners with disabilities, or any combination of similar things, you can maybe get by on $150k as long as you never fuck up and everything goes perfectly in your life and you don’t care about or try to help anyone else.
Edit: and I say man, because men are less likely to take on caregiver roles that cost large amounts of money.
My wife is disabled FYI. I get what you are saying, but there is still a good amount of wiggle room in our budget. I also still don’t really like the idea of lumping kids, which are a choice with a very clear financial impact, in the same category as dealing with illness and disability. That doesn’t seem to be a good faith argument.
A society where having kids is an unsustainable financial decision is a society that can’t continue to exist, and a society where caregiving for someone with a disability or having one yourself makes life impossible is also a society that can’t continue to exist.
There are also a ton of other factors that can easily push someone over the edge. “We have lots of wiggle room” is great for you but lots of people don’t… And even if someone did make a mistake, why should some small mistake put someone in inescapable debt?
I just think the idea that $150k is fine and everyone who can’t make it is an idiot isn’t taking in to account the obvious data that shows the opposite.
Kids are not always a choice, especially now that abortion is illegal in so many places.
In California, a new mortgage payment is 8-15k/month. Rent on an apartment is 3-4k/month. $150k salary isn’t enough for the mortgage and will struggle to cover that cost of rent.
Terrible assumption
Student loans
Or you only consider your expenses after savings and think that you are “living paycheck to paycheck” because you use up all your non-invested money by the end of the month.
100% agree
PS: porque no los dos?
It’s both. People try to always live above their means. Inflation causes that to catch up
I mean you can make any income be paycheck to paycheck by spending too much.
150k for me would be a dream right now. I have a dog, a gf, and I rent. But if you’re making 150k and you have two kids and a spouse for example, suddenly that 150k doesn’t go very far at all.
Yep, my mother used to manage pays for engineers making up to 300k and for some of them it was a disaster if a mistake lead to 200$ being missing from their cheque and they would be in her office first thing in the morning in full panic mode…
I mean, if my cheque was off by a couple of hundred dollars, I’d want to follow up on the discrepancy (not in panic mode though). My wife’s a high earner and some pay was delayed a month due to staff turnover.
Leadership was like “it shows financial stability to be able to wait for pay,” but people have budgets and plans for that money. Otherwise it’s an interest free loan to the organization - the money should be paid out timely.
But I do agree, overall, that folks should be able to manage their budget, especially as a high earner.
That’s wild to me.
Especially considering that at the time they could have just bought a house minutes from their office on a year’s salary instead of being over their head in debt because they preferred living in the next city in a house worth a couple millions…
That’s why lifestyle creep is a tough one. You make more money and then start thinking you want a bigger home, nicer car, eat out a lot more etc. It’s hard to scale back from that when the times get tougher as selling a multi-million home isn’t that easy.
Don’t let this sensational headline fool you. These are not the 1% not even close.
Welcome to the jungle fellas. How’s that trickle down working for you now?
A lot of, if not most, folks in that income bracket vote democrat and hate republicans. These are tech folks who voted for Bernie. It isn’t until you add another couple of zeros that you find the people funding the Republican party. 150k isn’t elite, it’s literally just barely middle class in any major city.
So are you stereotyping democrats as poor and republicans as rich? And only republicans tout trickledown? Oh, and if you voted for any trickledown policies, you have to be a rich elite? Please. Saying six digits is middle class is elite speech. Maybe in tech hubs like California and Washington, but in the REST of America, 6 digits is still upper class. Or at the least upper echelon of middle.
Personally I know many people in that “bracket” and lower that DO give to the GOP and vote for them too. They even vote for trickledown policies because they believe they are rich and they will benefit. I’d love to see some statistics on your claim that a lot if not most people in the middle class vote blue.
And other thing, there is a metric fuckton of blue and white collar work out there that makes six digits. Not everyone that makes that much is in the tech sector.
I’d love to see this as a paycheck breakdown. Unless you have a history of debt, a huge house, or like 8 kids I don’t see how it’s not possible to do at least moderately well on 150k/y
Edit: before folks reply with a comment about people being worse off, I know. I agree. This is just a scenario description.
It is very easy to be strapped with a modest sized house or apartment in the “right” zip code.
As in a 1.2mil mortgage on a 3 bedroom house that’s never been renovated since the 70s. That mortgage could be 5k / month.
150000 a year is 8.7k a month, after taxes. If you have student loans, any medical debt, kids, that remaining 3.7k is pretty critical. You aren’t swimming in liquid chocolate every night and wiping with singles.
If you own a home things can happen out of nowhere. I personally just had to replace my sewer line last month. 17k for the work and 1.5k for new concrete. Not covered by my home insurance because I didn’t opt for the rider on my account. My fault there… My finances are a bit different than the above description but if you were the 150 + paycheck to paycheck situation, you’d be in hot water.
This isn’t a “woe to the 150 crowd” comment. I’m well aware folks are way, way worse off, but when a 150 household talks about being paycheck to paycheck, it’s totally possible.
At least in CA where the property tax is 1%, last time I fed the info into one of those calculators a few months ago, a 1.2m house (exactly the type you describe) with a standard 20% down-payment would run closer to $8k/mo with good credit. That includes property tax and homeowners insurance, which is required to get a loan.
So yeah, that doesn’t leave a whole lot to live off of.
There’s also the upkeep cost for repairs and to renovate.
We’ve let our gutters stay broken for several years now because we just can’t afford to get them fixed. We had to have an emergency repair to our heat pump yesterday and that’s going to be hundreds of dollars out of pocket. We’re on a single income. My wife gets paid well (not $150,000 a year well) and our mortgage is low, but we’re barely making it.
$150k is twice what my parents made combined back in the 90s, and they lived a solid upper middle class life in an upscale suburb of a small city. Always had a nice TV and my dad and I both had PCs that we upgraded every year AND they saved up two years worth of college for me. Amazing how quickly things have changed. They bought their house for $180k and it’s now worth nearly $500k.
My career now is generally a higher valued one than theirs, but adjusting for inflation, my pay has always been lower than theirs at the same point in their careers. And that’s the story. Incomes may have doubled since the early-mid 90s, but everything else has tripled or quadrupled.
Inflation has doubled since 1999 so I’m not sure what your point is
Isn’t a mortgage as high as your whole salary for 10 years unwise from the get go?
In general yes, but many many people are doing this to attempt a “normal” home the likes of which they grew up in, and that they themselves want to raise a kid in.
OR consider a household where 2 incomes of around 150 were earned when the house was purchased, but now one earner is not earning appreciably any more…maybe a stay at home parent or illness or whatever.
Again just saying some possibilities, not the normative experience.
Bay area
Yeah I could see 150k being poverty level there.
Adam Smith observed in his epic that when people get more money they generally spend it on more/better housing. Today we have a few more luxury goods, to add to a house, but a house is still something people spend more and more money on when they get it.
I’m not sure that is bad. My dad died at 65 - what was the point of all the retirement savings he had saved up (at least my mom can enjoy it). Even if you live for much longer, most old people I know have failing bodies and so they can’t really enjoy those old years. More and more my advice to people is save for a rainy day and an okay retirement, but don’t save for a rich retirement - instead enjoy that difference now.
Sorry about your dad - I hope you got to enjoy some good times together before he passed.
Such a rusty axe head
They couldn’t afford a new one
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The only way I could reasonably see that is if those people bought houses when rates went up. I live in a high cost of living area and $150k would not be living paycheck to paycheck for my family (wife, 2 kids, and a dog). I guess I also don’t have expensive tastes.
Define high cost living area. Wife with 2 kids and a pet, I assume you’re going to need at least a 3 bedroom condo for a modest living arrangement.
Where I live, southern California, the average cost for a 3br condo is $4k per month. Mortgages at this time would be way more (standard 20% down).
Someone else estimated 150k is around 8.7k a month after taxes. So that’s already almost half your income just for a roof over your head.
Include the expense of kids, student loans, car loans, health insurance, etc. Yeah, paycheck to paycheck isn’t unrealistic.
Not everyone was lucky enough to be in the financial place in their life to buy a house 5 years ago.
I’m gonna go ahead and tell you, that’s a bit high for after tax.
I make 172/year and after tax and benefits and what not in South Carolina, I’m at 8.6 a month, which is less than the 150 estimate. So in an average tax state and making 20k less? Might be more like 7.5-8.
Fair enough. I’m sure there’s a calculator to make it easy per state. But yeah, take home is deceptive, because typically someone making that kind of income is going to have health insurance contributions, retirement contributions, social security (not technically income tax, but fair enough to deduct IMO) taken directly out of their paycheck.
Without doing the estimates myself, either of your claims sound plausible, and even taking 8.7k as a generous estimate, it doesn’t look good.
and even taking 8.7k as a generous estimate, it doesn’t look good.
Big facts. Worker wages need to be adjusted for the last ${years since Reagan took office and initially screwed everything up for the common American} and then we should be okay.
My family is very similar. We aren’t quite paycheck to paycheck, but things feel a lot tighter than they did before - we make 190 ish combined, which ends up being about 9k a month. We have one paid off car.
Mortgage - $2500 Utilities - $800 (electric, water, plain Internet and mnvo cell phone plan) Daughter’s school - $1200/mo (obv this is a “non essential”, but it’s pretty cheap for a year round private school) Prescriptions - $1200/mo with insurance (although this usually comes in a single lump in January. Insurance also refuses to cover a few essentials which we pay out of pocket for, about $100/mo) Student loans - $800/mo
Which leaves us with around $2500/mo for entertainment, car/house repair (it’s 40 years old and needs new things like a roof or hot water heater from time to time), groceries, any vacations, etc. My wife and I both have chronic conditions which are exhausting to deal with so we get house cleaning for $300/mo as well.
We are doing fine, but it seems like an exhausting cycle to try and build savings, and if we ever had to buy another car I don’t know how we would swing an extra $500 payment every month, with what it seems vehicles cost these days.
All this to say, while we are ok, I have no idea how families making under 100k get by.
Most people are not paying $1200/month for childcare or $300/month for a maid. They also probably put a lot less toward retirement.
That said, good on you for recognizing that the average household is struggling.
Sure, for school age kids like my daughter that is true, but I will push back that toddler and infant childcare is, on average, extremely expensive.
If you don’t have a grandparent or other relative to watch your kid, in a state like North Carolina you will be forking out around $800-900 a month per kid on average.
Which is why publicly funded options for preschool would be life-changing for so many people, especially single mothers and fathers.
To be fair, I live in a low cost of living area and having purchased a house this past January, if I dropped to 130k I might be paycheck to paycheck after a while. Which, granted is lower than the survey.
This being said, my mortgage payment is only $50 more than what my rent was about to increase to, because landlords are the devil.
I also didn’t get a big house, it was well under the national average for cost and size, very much a “starter house”. But still over 300k, because housing is a nightmare.
I’m somehow sure that plenty of people were still buying houses when rates went up. Once again, people blaming choices and circumstances. It feels eerily similar to how people judge the homeless and talk about their “bad choices.”
Oh boo hoo. Try making about half that, like me and my wife do (combined). It isn’t fun.
Dude. Get a grip. These people are far closer to you in wealth than the people who fund SuperPACs or own news organizations. You have much more in common with someone who makes $150k/year than you do with Elon Musk, Jeff Bezos, George Soros, Warren Buffet, Rupert Murdoch, or whoever the fuck else has obscene amounts of money. Those people, the billionaire class, the 0.01%, are the people using their larges to influence politics and media.
These people making $150k/year are overextending themselves, I get it, but if I actually spent the money I wanted to spend on improving my life, especially in relation to things like my health, I would be looking at needing to spend that kind of money each year. My teeth are falling out of my god damned head and I’ve gotten the cost of such things shared with me and it’s out of fucking control. I’m talking like $10k for one of the many problems I have in my mouth. The others aren’t cheaper. All it means is that we are so poor that we’re literally putting off life-saving medical care because it’s fucking unaffordable. All people making $150k a year are doing is just barely scraping by while actually getting that care.
Oh no, they own a single super shitty, hollowed out house that is busted as hell and needs massive repairs constantly. Yeah, man, they’re doing so much better than us just because they have a house. /s Like maybe take a minute and understand a lot of those people just bought their house, and it’s not like they were buying it in their 20’s.
People making this much are not your enemy, they are the people you have to convince that the system is broken and get them on your side.
People whose entire wealth and income comes from investments are the people who are your real fucking enemy.
Because guess what, these $150k/year stiffs still work for a fucking living.
Because I get it, it feels like they have so much more when they’re making over $100k a year more than you, but like, they’re still treading water, just like us, just like this article points out. Trust me, if you were making that money, you’d still be pretty broke unless you didn’t have kids.
Source: my broke ass sister, a lawyer who lives in a fucking hovel that needs tons of repair and is being bled dry by medical bills, child care, a psychopathic narcissist of an ex-husband (who literally lives off of credit cars and spends like Paris Hilton) and housing costs. She didn’t buy her home until she was over 50, she’s Gen X. She’s on thin ice just like me, even though she’s doing better by a lot of measures. The only “investments” she has is her fucking 401K to try to have a halfway decent retirement (ha, as if).
EDIT: Second Source: Just remembered a conversation I had with a friend years ago when I worked at a local mexican restaurant. He was upset at the owner, because he had like a million dollars in the bank. I explained that a lot of that was because he had been in business a long time, and frankly, you need that kind of money to keep a restaurant running (thin margins). I told him at the time that any huge disruptive thing could eat into that million and make a lot of it go away fast. COVID hit, and that restaurant nearly bit the dust, but only JUST scraped through the other side. I bet they don’t have a million in the bank now, they had to shut down to satellite stores where they sold their tortillas.
Hey, re your teeth, if you can afford this, and it hasn’t changed since then, my dad had to get something like $25,000 in dental work, so they took a trip to Costa Rica, spent about $3000 on the trip, and got the dental work for free. It sucks that people have to resort to things like that, but if you think you could afford that, I would definitely recommend looking into it.
they’re still treading water, just like us
I currently have 1200 dollars and live in my mother’s basement, because I’m her full time carer while she recovers from cancer. My current retirement plan is a rope. I have a master’s degree in STEM, but you’d be surprised how many homeless people have those too.
Someone earning 150k would have to work thousands of years to become a billionaire, true.
The ultra rich are the true enemy, true.
But Jesus Christ, people earning 150k are not ‘just scraping by’.
Seriously. Get a grip. How out of touch do you have to be to think that? No concept of what true poverty looks like.
As a 40-something guy who literally has cancer and no retirement savings and is wondering how he can even stay alive and has had a year of nothing but suicidal ideation, I still have the capacity to have compassion and not blame other working stiffs for how bad things are for me. I have a degree and I work at a fucking pizza place.
Out of touch my ass, I’m literally living a similar experience. Sorry I have the ability to consider other people’s situations instead of just my own. It’s called empathy, motherfucker. Have you heard of it??
Look, I’m really not in a good place either, as I assume you gathered. It’s been so long for me. At one point I found myself crying into the toilet I was cleaning for one of my night time temp jobs. Like you, I’m basically hanging on by a thread. It’s been going on so long, I no longer know where depression ends and I begin or if the original me still exists.
I don’t know about you, but I really shouldn’t be having this discussion, so we’ll leave it at that.
I’m just going to wish you luck, strength, or whatever gets you through today and tomorrow. Even if it’s drowning out the noise, even if it’s spite, anger or curiousity about something like the conclusion of a dumb tv show you don’t even really like.
Maybe things will get better for us, even if right now we perhaps don’t really believe in it anymore.
Thanks for that, friend. Life is hard, and I don’t blame you for being in a low place because of it. I appreciate your candor, openness, and willingness to hear me.
I wish and hope for the best for you, too. All of us deserve better.
Also, unrelated, dope username.
I’m not who you were replying to, but I just want to wish you the absolute best of luck in your health battle. Empathy is in short supply at the best of times, but showing empathy when you’re in the middle of something so hard is next level. I bet you also make an excellent pizza, even if that’s not where you expected to be working.
I’ll have my fingers crossed for you, friend. Fuck cancer and everything that it entails.
Cheers, mate. I hope for the best for all of us. It can happen to any of us at any time, and that’s part of why it’s so stressful. Making good money isn’t some sort of panacea against your life falling apart.
I mean, Christ, just think of all the people who have chronic pain that became opiate addicts who also had real, productive jobs who ended up on the street due to addiction to the solution to their chronic pain. Life isn’t fair, and even having money saved away can’t protect you from everything.
Many of them bought this on themselves
If these people are financially struggling, it’s by choice (e.g. buying property).
And I don’t feel sympathy for them. They can reduce their spending and survive.
People could literally say the same things about my financial situation, which is dire. I was on the verge of homelessness earlier this year. I have heard plenty from discompassionate people who say I could have tried harder/worked harder/done more and that my shortcomings are things I brought on myself.
They wouldn’t be entirely wrong, but I would still think they are kind of a stuck up asshole.
Same difference. Do you talk about the homeless the same way?
Do I talk about the homeless the same way as the top 20% of income earners?
No.
Do you have any more bad faith leaps you want to take here?
Now we can’t even buy property at $150k without being called out for making bad choices? Holy shit the working class is lowering their expectations way too much.
People used to be able to have a house, a car, hobbies, have medical help, all the house appliances, and yearly vacations on one income at some mindless factory job. Expect more, people. Demand more. You only can’t have it because the rich are hoarding everything and stealing your money. Don’t shrug and take it. Don’t criticize others for expecting it. Fucking demand it for yourself. It’s your work making them rich.
You might have heard of student loans. They can get rather high. You might have also heard about high cost of living areas. Houses can be pretty expensive. Another thing you might have heard about is high mortgage rates.
A new veterinarian with a specialist cert (which requires an undergrad degree, graduate degree, a shitty pay internship, and a shitty pay residency for a long time) will be sitting on $200,000 in loans and make about $200k. Now, if that person lives in Los Angeles and wants to buy a home they are going to have a loan for a million at 7%. Take-home pay on $200k after retirement/insurance/taxes is around $10k/month. Mortgage on a million is $7k/mo. Loan payments on $200k is around $1000/mo. Taxes on that house are about $1000/mo. Right there the take-home pay comes down to $1000/mo to pay for food ($600), utilities ($100), cell phone ($70), car ($300), car insurance ($100), gas ($100) internet ($100), etc. You might notice that those numbers add up to more than $1000.
Sure, that veterinarian who is already 35 years old now after all that schooling can just rent instead of buy a tiny house, but rent still costs $3000/mo in a big city for a small apartment.
This is a completely unfair assessment. I make way less than that, and this is what results they get? Either they didn’t try hard enough with more taking the test, or they are THAT financially tone deaf. Soo stupid
I don’t understand your point? The article and the survey found a 3rd of people earning over $150k were living pay cheque to pay cheque, but also 36% in the bracket below and over 55% of people on $50k or less.
Living pay cheque to pay cheque is a sign of financial distress but not the only sign. People’s living costs also match their lifestyles - it’s possible for someone earning $150k to be living pay cheque to pay cheque as the cost of living, schools, transport, etc are higher. Of course people in that bracket have the “luxury” of being able to move down the quality of life ladder - move to a cheaper area, cut back on their lifestyle.
Whatever you may think about people earning that much, the message is that the cost of living crisis is affecting everyone and pulling down living standards for everyone. Not only is it hard to live your previous lifestyle but it’s impossible to aspire for more.
The only exception is the millionaires and billionaires who continue to screw the rest of us over. We have more in common with someone who earns $150k a year than someone who earns $500k or who is sitting on millions or billions in asset wealth.
The sooner the middle classes realise they’re aligned with the poor and not the rich, the better. Maybe then they will stop voting for shit right wing politicians who only benefit the truly rich.
Try living in a high CoL area on 150k. Don’t bother with the “just move” or whatever trite oversimplified solution. People live where they live. Not everyone wants to earn 75k and live in Ardmore, Oklahoma so that their money goes further. If you can find a 75k job in Ardmore, anyway.
Higher taxes, higher mortgage or rent costs, cost of commuting all add up fast.
That said, burning through $150k does seem a stretch. I lived in a major metro area on a lot less (we were definitely poor), it is possible to keep expenses low, but it sure isn’t comfortable at all.
Is that supposed to make me feel better? Because it didn’t. 75, 000 a year is still less than what I make.
Seeing this first hand between myself and some of my close coworkers who all earn similar incomes with similar sized families, I’d be willing to bet a majority of those 32% (who don’t live in the bay area or Manhattan) are financially illiterate and live paycheck to paycheck because they blow all their money on stupid shit.
I still manage to save, pay my credit card off each month, and pay all the household bills while still having money for stupid hobbies and yearly vacations while they constantly take out loans, loans to pay for other loans, finance even small purchases, have multiple maxed out credit cards, and keep kicking the can down the road on paying off their 20 year old student loans. I’d have a little more sympathy if they didn’t make snide comments like “must be nice” when I mention an upcoming trip, or argue that I’m stupid for upping my 401k contributions during our recent market dip while suggesting its better to sell it off when the market is down so you don’t lose your money.
I don’t see how that’s possible unless you have a huge family, you have some sort of chronic disease that insurance doesn’t cover, or you’re wildly irresponsible. Even in a high cost-of-living area, a normal family of four could live quite comfortably on that much money and still save some of it.
(I don’t think that many high-earning people are wildly irresponsible. I suspect that this statistic isn’t right.)
It’s called living in a city. Housing is expensive as fuck in cities.
I live in a one-bedroom in midtown Manhattan. It costs me about a hundred dollars a day and I’m still saving money on my software developer salary.
That’s pretty steep for a 1 bedroom apartment, 3000ish I assume based on what you said, and I’m guessing it’s not that big. I meanwhile live in a college town in the middle of nowhere and my 3 bedroom house with a garage and basement is 2100 a month.
Yeah rent in desirable cities is high. It’s the price you pay for being in a cultural mecca with a lot of career opportunities. Not for everyone obviously but a lot of people would absolutely not want to live in a college town either.
I’ve done both and enjoy cities way more and consider the rent money well spent. Making that transition to a big city was transformative for me personally and my career.
The funny thing is that despite spending all that money, I actually hate living here. It’s crowded and I can’t get around by driving. I used to pay $450 a month for a parking spot but I gave up on that because even though I could park near where I lived, I wasn’t able to park at most of the places I needed to go. (And now they’re adding tolls and I will have to pay about $20 each time I drive to my own home.)
My elderly relatives are here and I want/need to be close to them. It’s not realistic for them to move, but if they could then I would immediately go with them somewhere where a cabin on a 40-acre lot costs less than my apartment. 40 acres is like having 8 Manhattan city blocks all to yourself!
You’re software developer tho. So you’re a rich person anyways. You don’t understand the struggle
The OP is talking about people with software-developer salaries.
A lot of people live in cities and make far less than 150k, even when you add both parents income. They do just fine. Housing where you live might be expensive ,but there are more affordable houses around. Probably not in areas you would be willing to live.
When people hear “living paycheck to paycheck” they automatically assume it means barely making enough money for essentials. It for sure can mean that, but often people living paycheck to paycheck make good money, they just don’t live within their means. It’s not hard to buy a nicer house and a nicer car than your can really afford, and run up credit card debt, and find yourself in a situation where you can’t pay your bills because you’re overextended, even with a good salary.
A few additional things to consider:
- Accrued debt
- Areas with highest cost of living tend to also be areas with relatively high population density (San Francisco is usually the go-to example for this)
- Inflexibility of living in austerity
- Intuit benefits from scaring people in the lower and middle economic classes
I make less than a third of that and make it work (barely). Some people need to seriously reassess their priorities or something.
Many probably live in higher cost of living areas.
And it’s entirely possible/likely if they move to a lower cost of living area they will suddenly not make anywhere near as much and still live paycheck to paycheck.
You don’t get any sort of financial assistance?
I grew up on the poverty line. Food Stamps and Affortable Housing programs got us by.
I worked my ass off to get above the threshold of qualifying for any sort of assistance, and now I live at about the same level because food and rent eat up the difference between what I make and what my parents made.
Nope, no direct financial assistance. Though my parents are close by, and do help with things like inviting me over to dinner like once a month and helping me buy used furniture, if that counts. I shop very frugally and don’t have expensive hobbies. The only thing I’m really missing is savings.
We are cut from different cloths.
I hope you the best.
What’s even the point of your comment, I’m not trying to be rude it just seems unhelpful and the attitude is prevalent. Sure, if people adjust their habits they could make due, but the problem is the fucking robbery of all working people so it’s just wasting time bickering with points like this.
Yeah, I was making a flat 50k a few years ago, and seeing some college classmates making three times as much complaining about how poor they were could only make me laugh.
I’m doing much better now, but it still drives me nuts when people don’t know how to appreciate what they have.
Someone can appreciate what they have and still struggle to support a family, repair and maintaine a house, pay deductibles and co-pays for medical treatments, support an unemployed or ailing family member, pay student loans, pay car loans, send remittances to family in a home country, etc. They could simply live in a HCOL area. There are many not unusual scenarios that could have a household making $150k/year struggle.
It drives me nuts when people think their circumstances define someone else’s, too.
Boo hoo? I make a bit over half of half of that, and I’m getting by just fine. Maybe cut back on the avocado toast if you make 4x what I make and can’t manage to live within those means.
Cost of living varies from state to state, and city to city.
And where is this place where you can’t live and save on 150k USD?
You can pick just about any city in the U.S. and you’ll find insane housing prices.
So get off Manhattan and you will be fine.
Fucking GREAT for you, no one asked, thanks for being an asshole.
